Alternate Frankfurt?

The Franco - Prussian War had serious consequences for France, including including the downfall of Napoleon III. The only territory Bismarck demanded was the 'return'of Alsace, and part of Lorraine, as we know. However, I wondered: what would be the harshest terms possible that might be forced upon the French?
 
The Franco - Prussian War had serious consequences for France, including including the downfall of Napoleon III. The only territory Bismarck demanded was the 'return'of Alsace, and part of Lorraine, as we know. However, I wondered: what would be the harshest terms possible that might be forced upon the French?
Maybe the entirety of Alsace and Longwy-Briey(even without knowing of the coal Germany could ask for it to cut off France from Luxemburg).
Maybe some colonies but I don´t see it to be the main focus of Germany during Bismark´s rule, also it would piss of somewhat the UK and it would not be wanted right after the unification.
There is not a lot more that could be extracted that Germany wants but could be it possible that Germany force France to cede land to a third party? Like Italy for example?
 
@ Gloss: maybe if said third party had actively sided with Prussia and the other German states. For instance an allied Italy might get Savoy and Nice back from France in a peace treaty, adding Corsica to that would require a serious southern front and might be too much.

Anything more for the German Empire will most likely be colonies, even if Bismarck wasn't too thrilled about that, it still seems more likely than taking more territory from France in Europe for themselves at least.
 
@ Gloss: maybe if said third party had actively sided with Prussia and the other German states. For instance an allied Italy might get Savoy and Nice back from France in a peace treaty, adding Corsica to that would require a serious southern front and might be too much.

Anything more for the German Empire will most likely be colonies, even if Bismarck wasn't too thrilled about that, it still seems more likely than taking more territory from France in Europe for themselves at least.
But I´m not sure we are allowed to change how the war went, only the peace treaty. BTW I´d say Savoy is a bit hard to invade for Italy and Corsica would make more sense as a prize but I´m not sure Italy would have been to take even one of those 2.
 
But I´m not sure we are allowed to change how the war went, only the peace treaty. BTW I´d say Savoy is a bit hard to invade for Italy and Corsica would make more sense as a prize but I´m not sure Italy would have been to take even one of those 2.

Nice is by far the most likely prize for Italy.
 
Nice is by far the most likely prize for Italy.

Yeah. Nice at the time still had a noteworthy Italian minority, plus the city was seen as pretty prestigious due to being the birthplace of Garibaldi. Savoy meanwhile barely had an Italian minority left when it was ceded to France.

So yeah...

And when it comes to other gains, annexing a few additional border towns as part of Alsace-Lorraine or reducing the European concession in size is certainly plausible. Colonial gains could happen without Bismarck at the helm and even then most likely only in conjunction with small European gains.

(oh and colonies which might be appealing to the Germans would be what would become Guinea, the Ivory or Cochinchina/Indochina; everything else probably isn't too appealing to Berlin).
 
Yeah. Nice at the time still had a noteworthy Italian minority, plus the city was seen as pretty prestigious due to being the birthplace of Garibaldi. Savoy meanwhile barely had an Italian minority left when it was ceded to France.

So yeah...

And when it comes to other gains, annexing a few additional border towns as part of Alsace-Lorraine or reducing the European concession in size is certainly plausible. Colonial gains could happen without Bismarck at the helm and even then most likely only in conjunction with small European gains.

(oh and colonies which might be appealing to the Germans would be what would become Guinea, the Ivory or Cochinchina/Indochina; everything else probably isn't too appealing to Berlin).
Minority? Wasn´t the city french for only 15-10 years? :confused:
The town would have been Italian/Genoese and the countryside borderline Italic-Occitan.

Mind that without Bismark you would change the events too much to even have the war, also Bismark opposed to many demands on France so without him you would harsher term in Europe, not sure about the colonies.
 
Minority? Wasn´t the city french for only 15-10 years? :confused:
The town would have been Italian/Genoese and the countryside borderline Italic-Occitan.

Mind that without Bismark you would change the events too much to even have the war, also Bismark opposed to many demands on France so without him you would harsher term in Europe, not sure about the colonies.

I suppose Bismarck could be forced out some time between Ems and the peace. I'm sure he had several resignation-threatening tantrums in those months - if the King gets sufficiently irritated with him, he could potentially be dismissed and replaced with someone more willing to demand maximal terms from France.
 
If Prince Leopold Hohenzollern - Sigmaringen is willing, could the Prussians enforce the principle that he be installed as the new King of Spain?
 
If Prince Leopold Hohenzollern - Sigmaringen is willing, could the Prussians enforce the principle that he be installed as the new King of Spain?

I don't think anyone in Germany actually cared very much about the Spanish throne, but they offered the throne to the Duke of Aosta in November 1870, while the war was still going on. So it'd be hard to reverse that, I'd think. Even if they did, how likely is it that he's any more successful than Amadeo I?
 
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