Alternate Countries With Manifest Destiny?

CaliGuy

Banned
Where else could we see massive population movements similar to those such as the U.S.'s Manifest Destiny or Russia's settlement of Siberia and Northern Kazakhstan?

Any thoughts on this?
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Also, another historical analogy to this might be the westward movement of millions of Poles after 1945 (into the "Recovered Territories," that is).
 
Where else could we see massive population movements similar to those such as the U.S.'s Manifest Destiny or Russia's settlement of Siberia and Northern Kazakhstan?

Any thoughts on this?

Maybe a more maritime-oriented China? They had periodic overpopulation crises, I could see a more outward-looking Chinese dynasty establishing a colony somewhere to soak up its surplus population.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
Maybe a more maritime-oriented China? They had periodic overpopulation crises, I could see a more outward-looking Chinese dynasty establishing a colony somewhere to soak up its surplus population.
For the record, I was thinking more of land expansion rather than of naval/colonial expansion here.

However, out of curiosity--where exactly could China have realistically created a colony?
 

Wallet

Banned
South Africans could push upwards to annex as much of sub-saharan Africa for white settlement. Maybe have the Spanish and French take all the new world and all the English/German/Dutch/Nordic immigrants go to South America. Maybe the United Afrikan States forms.
 
However, out of curiosity--where exactly could China have realistically created a colony?
Zheng He explored the Indian Ocean during the Ming Dynasty, so the Phillipines, Indonesia, Australia, Sri Lanka, and East Africa are all possibilities as long as China doesn't turn inward.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
South Africans could push upwards to annex as much of sub-saharan Africa for white settlement.
Tricky because of the agricultural complex problem. Malaria and the Tsetse Fly combine with that to make European-population colonies in central Africa a real pig.

There's already been an African population movement/expulsion, though, and it's the Bantu. Not deliberate, just happened.
 
Probably some time in the 19th century. I'm not knowledgeable enough about South American history to be more precise than that.
 
South Africans could push upwards to annex as much of sub-saharan Africa for white settlement. Maybe have the Spanish and French take all the new world and all the English/German/Dutch/Nordic immigrants go to South America. Maybe the United Afrikan States forms.
Will they keep slavery and polytheism while they're at it? :p
 
Zheng He explored the Indian Ocean during the Ming Dynasty, so the Phillipines, Indonesia, Australia, Sri Lanka, and East Africa are all possibilities as long as China doesn't turn inward.
Chinese Australia sounds awesome for everyone accept the wild life.
 
China and Manchuria, as in OTL. But to a greater degree. Suppose the Shun Dynasty had triumphed, they could conquer Manchuria and effectively colonise the place with millions of Chinese. Note that this would include the lands China lost to Russia, also incidentally meaning that Russia would have a hell of time conquering the place (outside of individual ports like *Vladivostok) in the case the Shun suffer the same decline as the Qing.

By that logic, wank Vietnam and have them colonise Cambodia and convert it into an integral part of Vietnam as they did with the former Champa parts of Vietnam. OTL Cambodia was deathly afraid of this happening.

Also in Manchuria, the Koreans could push north. This might require some clever diplomacy, Chinese weakness, and brute military strength to be able to assert control over that land. Much less likely than China, I think.

Maybe also Persia colonising Central Asia and even Siberia, but this requires a strong series of rulers to hold Central Asia, which begs the question why they wouldn't just go after India if they have that much military strength.

South Africans could push upwards to annex as much of sub-saharan Africa for white settlement. Maybe have the Spanish and French take all the new world and all the English/German/Dutch/Nordic immigrants go to South America. Maybe the United Afrikan States forms.

Yeah, maybe a Portuguese South Africa has an equivalent to the bandeirantes of Brazil, and it becomes a push to get to the Congo River, all the while looting and enslaving everything in their way. Would make a very interesting divide between north (more indigenous African, almost certainly poorer, mainly speaking local languages) and south (more European, wealthier, mainly speaking Portuguese) in South Africa, akin to Brazil but possibly even more distinct.

Brazil? They advanced pretty far westward. Maybe a push to the Pacific?

Even if they keep following the Amazon, that's in the heart of Spanish territory in the New World, unlike the parts of South America given to Portugal OTL. The Andes are an utterly formidable obstacle, and they were also the center of Spain's empire. Seems insurmountable, even in 19th century South America.
 
Russia did have it, any country could have it if they are conquering North America or Siberia.
 
I'll add Japan and Mexico to this list. Japan, because a Japanese colonisation of Siberia in the 18th century or so might lead to a desire to reach the Lena River, or alternatively in the New World, the Rocky Mountains. Possibly both. Mexico might have the desire to establish decisive control over the lands which became the Mexican Cession, and move many, many people north to help secure control over the lands (the other part being expeditions to crush the Navajo, Comanche, and other indigenous people in their way). Would probably take an earlier POD to give the Mexican government the ability to do so effectively.

Russia did have it, any country could have it if they are conquering North America or Siberia.

Yeah, although it would be interesting to see how alternate countries occupying the same geographic area take the idea. The idea is fairly natural ("We must reach the Pacific!"), but how the nation goes about doing so, the people lobbying for it, etc., will be different depending on the culture of the nation.
 

CaliGuy

Banned
I'll add Japan and Mexico to this list. Japan, because a Japanese colonisation of Siberia in the 18th century or so might lead to a desire to reach the Lena River, or alternatively in the New World, the Rocky Mountains. Possibly both.

How exactly do you get Japan out of isolationism, though?

Mexico might have the desire to establish decisive control over the lands which became the Mexican Cession, and move many, many people north to help secure control over the lands (the other part being expeditions to crush the Navajo, Comanche, and other indigenous people in their way). Would probably take an earlier POD to give the Mexican government the ability to do so effectively.

Out of curiosity--why exactly was Mexican government control of this area so poor in the early 1800s?
 
Kangaroo meat soup with Chinese noodles? ;)
Well considering a freind of mine who lives in China says that they adore foods like the Japanese Oyakodon, "Parent and Child Donburi", an omelette rice dish that celebrates the fact that both chicken and egg are in it, I can imagine a lot they could do with Marsupials. Apparently half the fun of the dish is the humorous name, so I could see something similar with crocodile eggs, or some form of Koala/Eucalyptus broth noodle dish.
 
Out of curiosity--why exactly was Mexican government control of this area so poor in the early 1800s?

Indian raids, crippling underpopulation, bad infrastructure, and hostile terrain made the place hard to effectively govern on its own. Throw in that Mexico was not exactly stable when they were independent, that the Peninsulares weren't interested in northern expansion when Spain was in charge, and Mexico itself was sparsely populated and you have a recipe for a slim control over the massive territories in North America.
 
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