Alternate concepts in early Mormonism and effects

These are separate, mutually exclusive scenarios. What are the effects of each?

Technically, the very idea of an alternate Mormonism is actually an insult to Mormonism. But that is not intended.

Alternate concept 1: The Native Americans are culturally descended from the Nephites, but racially descended from the Lamanites. Their faith has degraded but they can be converted. They may be more 'noble' at heart than Europeans.

Alternate concept 2: Darkness was only bad in the context of the Lamanites. All Old World peoples are equal if they are Christian. Basically blacks are tolerated in the early church.

Alternate concept 3: Actually many different concepts. Joseph Smith preaches an entirely different religion. Entirely different and not even Mormonism, the reason it's here is because it would still be created at around the same time and in the same place. Called hedonist by many, it allows alcohol and debauchery. Plural marriage is called a divine commandment, but it is also acknowledged to be for pleasure. There's also a message of peace and love. Meanwhile, the OTL Mormon aspects that fit within this mold still occur.

Alternate concept 4: Joseph Smith claims to be Jesus reincarnate.

Alternate concept 5: Wine and rum are permissible, beer is not.
 
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JRScott

Banned
1. Lamanites and Nephites intermingled and thus Native Americans were technically by Mormon doctrine descendants of both. Many Native Americans were in fact converted and remain members of the church even today.

2. People of color could join just couldn't hold the priesthood initially, though some reports claim this was not Joseph Smith's doing but happened after his death.

3. It never lasts, there were religions of this type you propose. Such a free church which requires no sacrifice of thought and deed for its people cannot last, after all if they are free to do what they will then there is no reason to even attend or belong to this 'new church'.

As it is the LDS Church is one of the more successful churches that arose during the Second Great Awakening, the other successful one would be the 7th Day Adventist. Keep in mind the name of the Mormon church is actually The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

4. He'd be killed by the mobs for heresy, just like he was in real life for claiming to be a prophet. (Also this is inconsistent with 3 as if you are Christ incarnate you aren't going to teach a doctrine different than Christ taught).

5. The early LDS church did allow wine of their own manufacture to be used in sacrament ceremonies, it was later changed to water. Again removing what makes the church unique makes it no more appealing than anything else, and it would not be successful.
 
As it is the LDS Church is one of the more successful churches that arose during the Second Great Awakening, the other successful one would be the 7th Day Adventist. Keep in mind the name of the Mormon church is actually The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.
I know it is. But saying LDS church instead of Mormonism implies the modern church.

4. He'd be killed by the mobs for heresy, just like he was in real life for claiming to be a prophet. (Also this is inconsistent with 3 as if you are Christ incarnate you aren't going to teach a doctrine different than Christ taught).
He could say that Christ's original teachings were corrupted over time.

Of course he would still be killed by a mob.
 

Zioneer

Banned
Yeah the "blacks=inferior" thing was only really codified by Brigham Young. Remove Brigham Young, and those of African descent keep the priesthood.

And as JRScott said, a lot of Native Americans were converted as well; you could turbo-charge the respect Mormons had/have for Native Americans though. If Joseph Smith has more pro-Native American teachings (like "God wants us to teach and support the natives of this land), then you could easily have more Native Americans joining, if only for the help that Mormons would give them.

And don't worry about the alt-history being an insult to Mormons; we're okay with it.
 

Rex Mundi

Banned
A change in attitude towards Native Americans and blacks could have fairly significant consequences further down the line, I think, particularly in regard to the LDS's modern reputability.

Edit: Changed 'LSD' to 'LDS'. Sorry about that, no offense or joke intended.
 
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Incognito

Banned
A change in attitude towards Native Americans and blacks could have fairly significant consequences further down the line, I think, particularly in regard to the LSD's modern reputability.
But in that case would it appeal to white people it attracted in OTL?
 

Rex Mundi

Banned
But in that case would it appeal to white people it attracted in OTL?

I can't comment on whether Mormon racial ideas facilitated conversions; LDS members were presumably as prejudiced as other Americans of the time period, so I think the most likely way for this scenario to happen would be to have Joseph Smith and others just remain silent on the issue of race altogether. I don't know if that would hurt their numbers, though it's reasonable to assume that the composition of the membership itself would be slightly different, and that those people who joined OTL would have somewhat different attitudes ITL. That might impact the early development of LDS theology and historiography.
 

Zioneer

Banned
But in that case would it appeal to white people it attracted in OTL?

Well, it was attracting white people in Joseph Smith's time, even after he openly called for slavery to be ended and had converted a few black people, so I think it still would appeal to nearly the same number as in OTL.

EDIT: Also, what Rex Mundi said.
 

Rex Mundi

Banned
What perhaps interests me more is the issue of alcohol. Allowing alcohol might allow the LDS movement to appeal to a much wider array of Americans; on the other hand, in the context of contemporary puritanism, allowing wine might have rendered Smith's message insufficiently radical/inspirational for some who joined OTL.
 

Zioneer

Banned
What perhaps interests me more is the issue of alcohol. Allowing alcohol might allow the LDS movement to appeal to a much wider array of Americans; on the other hand, in the context of contemporary puritanism, allowing wine might have rendered Smith's message insufficiently radical/inspirational for some who joined OTL.

Well, the "no alcohol or smoking" bit wasn't really enforced until Utah statehood; the prophets and apostles enjoyed a drink frequently.
 

Rex Mundi

Banned
Well, the "no alcohol or smoking" bit wasn't really enforced until Utah statehood; the prophets and apostles enjoyed a drink frequently.

Yes, the Word of Wisdom as initially interpreted was't obligatory, so in theory, all you would need to do is prevent it from becoming applied more stringently in the future. The problem I think, is that for religious matters in general, the line between a recommendation and a commandment is pretty blurred. That in conjunction with the generally puritanical framework in which nineteenth century American Christianity was developing paves the road for more generalized and 'higher' standards.

That said, I think it's entirely possible for ATL Mormons to have the occasional glass of wine or coffee without having to alter Joseph Smith's original statement. Islam has many activities which various schools of thought recommend against without outright forbidding; moderate tobacco use, for instance, is merely frowned upon by many Muslim thinkers, while only excess or overuse (e.g., chain smoking) is prohibited. The LDS could theoretically take a more nuanced view along the same lines.

One way to achieve that, I think, is to let the LDS grow on its own terms, while using a POD after the start of Joseph Smith's ministry which results in a gradual shift towards less paternalism in the U.S. The Word of Wisdom began to be applied universally at the turn of the century, when American society in general was experiencing the effects of teetotaler movements; the two are almost surely connected. One possible POD would be delaying early feminism or changing some of the figures associated with it, in which case Temperance societies would gain less ground. Such an ATL would also have no Prohibition, which in turn effects the way the way that cannabis, cocaine and heroin will be regulated.

To add something more relevant to the OP's question, I think that one thing we don't consider when we think about the LDS allowing alcohol is that they'd probably also allow coffee and tea. Though the choice of drinking or not drinking coffee obviously shouldn't matter much to people, the idea of a religious group that doesn't drink coffee as a matter of moral principle is quite alien to the American mindset. It's one of the more widely discussed/known aspects of the modern LDS and in some ways contributes to a sense of a cultural divide.

Edit: I feel kind of stupid for wanting to point this out, but I didn't mean "shouldn't matter much to people" in a way that insults LDS members who might think it's important.
 
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