Alternate colonial powers during Age of Exploration?

[hellohello]

Considering the trailblazers of the A of E in the OTL, I'd like to explore potential alternative candidates to those we know, and possible consequences of their endeavours.

Firstly, the Americas: supposing some crises or series of unfortunate events stalled Spain or Portugal from exploring Central and South America, who else might have done so in their place? Who would be most likely?

Supposing French, English, Dutch were not the first to colonize North America, who else would be more likely?

Same question regarding Japan: remove the Dutch, Spanish and Portugese from the equation for some reason, leaving room for an alternative power, and which European power would be likely to go there instead?

Lastly, India: remove the East India Company from the TL in it's original form, and who would most likely have tried to fill the gap?

 

[Nivek]

Maybe Al-Andalus?

Lastly, India: remove the East India Company from the TL in it's original form, and who would most likely have tried to fill the gap?

Maybe the India would Colonize itself?

 

[Arkenfolm]

In the late 15th century, Germans Didrik Pining and Hans Pothorst sailed for Denmark-Norway and visited Iceland and Greenland and perhaps the New World. Danish interest in the New World wasn't limited to their era, as in the early 16th century naval officer Søren Norby was assigned to find a route from Greenland to the West Indies yet instead was recalled to Denmark to deal with the Swedes under Gustav Vasa in an ultimately unsuccessful war.

One must wonder the potential of a united Scandinavia in colonising North America starting perhaps in the late 16th century. They have plenty of potential settlers (mostly Finns) and can gain an even greater share of the trade in cod, furs, and other goods. Considering the fertility rates and the decent land available in Nova Scotia or New England they'd multiply fast so would become an integral part of Scandinavian realm (I suppose the Finns might be akin the Canadian Gaelic speakers).

Aside from that, English interest in the New World thanks to the Grand Banks was enough that they were always going to be a competitor.

 

[ClockworkDawn]

-snip-

"Firstly, the Americas: supposing some crises or series of unfortunate events stalled Spain or Portugal from exploring Central and South America, who else might have done so in their place? Who would be most likely?"

Columbus went all over the place to try and secure some funding for his voyages, perhaps one of them say yes rather than rejecting him? He talked with various Italian states, perhaps one of them say yes, see value in the reportedly fertile lands in the Caribbean, and we see a competition between them for the various islands there as a source of cash crops?

"Supposing French, English, Dutch were not the first to colonize North America, who else would be more likely?"

The Danish and the Scandinavians, perhaps? The Swedish had a colony in what would become Maryland, but it wasn't very successful. Maybe the Danes see some value in the fur trade there, and expand into Canada as a result?

"Same question regarding Japan: remove the Dutch, Spanish and Portugese from the equation for some reason, leaving room for an alternative power, and which European power would be likely to go there instead?"

Japan was always on the periphery of the European powers, and if one of the original main powers ignored it, I could see it remaining in isolation for much longer. Perhaps the English or the French see a possible market, and a chance for colonies of their own in the Orient, a la Formosa or the Philippines, and make a play for it.

"Lastly, India: remove the East India Company from the TL in it's original form, and who would most likely have tried to fill the gap?"

The East India Company spent a long time in competition with the French. Without them (perhaps Robert Clive dies, or isn't quite as improbably successful), they would likely fill the gap, perhaps splitting off with the Dutch and the Portuguese.

 

[Bountifulauto82]

One or more of the Italian states very well could have. Venice specifically had interests in the new world, though it is likely any Italian settlement would be limited to small trading settlements and forts in strategic positions, similar to the Dutch. Of course, there is a problem that must always be overcome if Italy wishes to colonize, Italy is stuck in the Mediterranean.

 

[Revachah]

An independent Angolan state protected by the Catholic church.

 

[St. Just]

An independent Angolan state protected by the Catholic church.

Catholicism makes the Central African states too dependent on the perfidious/slavering Iberians and Italians. IOTL having the bishop of Utica connected to Kongo didn't atop Portugal from undermining both Kongo and the Angolan statelets. Not to mention the lack of independent naval/commercial capacity.

I could see the Duke of Sonyo ending up with influence in Northeast Brasil -- Sonyo was the African terminus of the Kongo slave trade IOTL, perhaps a marriage with a struggling captain-general in exchange for help against the Dutch/French/insert opposing faction.

 

[St. Just]

The big potential alternates are IOTL marginak European states. Denmark-Norway and the Germans come to mind, and the Tuscans could manage some minor colonialism in terms of islands. An independent Brittany or Navarra would have similar marginal opportunities in New England and Acadia due to longstanding fishing presence there.

In Asia, the big alternate is France, which had a much smaller impact pre-19th century than it could have had.

 

[Nivek]

Germans

The thing is..there not a single germany at the time, specially with the patchwork mess the HRE was

 

[Lusitania]

One or more of the Italian states very well could have. Venice specifically had interests in the new world, though it is likely any Italian settlement would be limited to small trading settlements and forts in strategic positions, similar to the Dutch. Of course, there is a problem that must always be overcome if Italy wishes to colonize, Italy is stuck in the Mediterranean.

We keep having this myth that an Italian state would of tried sailing around Africa to reach India or orient. That is a fallacy. These Italian states profit and existence was based on trade through Ottoman Empire. They not going to fund any action that undermines their economic interests.

Without the Portuguese starting their sailing expedition along Africa there would not of been any Columbus and exploration would of been haphazard at best.

 

[Grey Wolf]

Venice - Portugal offered them warehousing in Lisbon after the Egypt route was shut down but Venice believed that it would be a short term shutdown and refused.

Sweden

Denmark

 

[Lusitania]

Venice - Portugal offered them warehousing in Lisbon after the Egypt route was shut down but Venice believed that it would be a short term shutdown and refused.

Sweden

Denmark

Again Venice and Genoa has no interest financing exploration. Why would Sweden or Denmark destarte exploration. They were late comers.

 

[Grey Wolf]

Again Venice and Genoa has no interest financing exploration. Why would Sweden or Denmark destarte exploration. They were late comers.

If nobody else is doing it, a late-comer is a first-comer

 

[Lusitania]

If nobody else is doing it, a late-comer is a first-comer

But if no one else did it then there be no incentive for these countries to go exploring. Why would the other countries not be explorers? If there is plagues and war it would affect those. Exploring is not just something that usually happens by accident. There are triggers that need to exist. Columbus idea to go west was due to over 70 years of exploration by the Portuguese who continued to discover new routes and lands.

 

[Arkenfolm]

If we turn back the clock a bit, Old Saxony without the collapse of the Henry the Lion's realm might form a north-centered HRE which would logically be projecting power in the North Sea and eventually the Americas. That would be an obvious colonial power.

The thing is..there not a single germany at the time, specially with the patchwork mess the HRE was

Austria could have done a hell of a lot with their dynastic links to Spain and control of (part of) the Low Countries.

Why would Sweden or Denmark destarte exploration. They were late comers.

Denmark (and technically Sweden) were not since as I said there was exploration of Greenland in the late 15th century and that could easily lead to more. Denmark just became rather distracted with the situation in Sweden and domestic issues (although one could easily imagine cleaner resolutions in Scandinavia and messier internal issues in the OTL colonial powers).

And the discovery of the Grand Banks was coming sooner or later (Cabot was probably not the first person sailing from Bristol to encounter it) meaning there's still plenty of incentive for Denmark to keep exploring the New World.

 

[Lusitania]

If we turn back the clock a bit, Old Saxony without the collapse of the Henry the Lion's realm might form a north-centered HRE which would logically be projecting power in the North Sea and eventually the Americas. That would be an obvious colonial power.

Austria could have done a hell of a lot with their dynastic links to Spain and control of (part of) the Low Countries.

Denmark (and technically Sweden) were not since as I said there was exploration of Greenland in the late 15th century and that could easily lead to more. Denmark just became rather distracted with the situation in Sweden and domestic issues (although one could easily imagine cleaner resolutions in Scandinavia and messier internal issues in the OTL colonial powers).

And the discovery of the Grand Banks was coming sooner or later (Cabot was probably not the first person sailing from Bristol to encounter it) meaning there's still plenty of incentive for Denmark to keep exploring the New World.

You are correct about Denmark and Sweden being involved in the north along with Grand Banks. But neither place Inspire a country to spend tons of $$ in exploration. Cabot went because portuguese snd Spanish were getting the good stuff.

Remember the goal and desire was the riches of India and Far East. Not furs, fish and timber. FYI records indicate fishermen knew of Grand Banks even before Columbus but did not share.

As for Austria it was excluded just like Aragon was from colonies. Things were not shared but closely guarded. Only one port Seville allowed to sail to new world.

 

[Gloss]

A separate Habsburg Austria through the Netherlands, the Kalmar Union and with earlier PODs a Christian north Africa too.

 

[Lusitania]

But we discussing age of exploration not age of imperialism. This is 15-16th century. Neither of those alternatives will be part of exploring.

 

[Gloss]

One must wonder the potential of a united Scandinavia in colonising North America starting perhaps in the late 16th century. They have plenty of potential settlers (mostly Finns) and can gain an even greater share of the trade in cod, furs, and other goods. Considering the fertility rates and the decent land available in Nova Scotia or New England they'd multiply fast so would become an integral part of Scandinavian realm (I suppose the Finns might be akin the Canadian Gaelic speakers).

To continue the discussion from before, I believe that Finns would be a small portion of settlers in a Denmark centered Kalmar union for multiple reasons, one is that forest Finns/Savonians might not be invited or end up in central Sweden to begin with from where they would be more prone to be recruited(plus Central Sweden might be more marginal anyway), on top of that the positions of Norwegians, Danes and insular Norse both geographically and politically would massively favour them. Finland altogether would make just 1/7 to 1/8 of the total population and about 20% of them are Swedish speakers anyway.

 

[Gloss]

But we discussing age of exploration not age of imperialism. This is 15-16th century. Neither of those alternatives will be part of exploring.

Why not? First of all considering the age of exploration an "Iberian" thing IOTL is unwarranted(EDIT: I'm not saying you said that, just pointing that it was an international effort IOTL) when so many explorers and crews were non-Iberian, plus the French and the English were able to all sponsor expeditions pretty soon after Colombus came back from his first journey.

If a given state ends up having a strong seaward focus during this period they might discover the Azores first and make it their colony.