Alternate Cold Wars

[Dr. Strangelove]

Well, I see most of the 20th century based TL's always keep the same scheme:

There's a devastating world war in some moment between 1900 and 1920, followed by several years of chaos and installation of authoritarian governments in the losing countries, followed by an even worse world war. After it, there's a long Cold War between the victors.

I like that scheme, so let's keep it.

Well, my point is that every Cold War is always US vs Someone Else. Of course, this is natural, just look at a world map and see why the US would always be one of the two winners in a world war, but it starts to be boring.

So, can someone else come with an alternate Cold War between the 1940's and the 1990's more original than the classics US vs Russia, US vs Germany?

My personal favorites:

- US vs British Empire. Of course that British Empire would have to be very different from OTL British Empire.
- US vs Japan
- Slightly saner victorius Nazi Germany vs Slightly insaner USSR.
- Peron's Argentina vs Mao's China after nuclear WWIII reduces the northern hemisphere to nuclear rubble/neofeudal stuff.

 

[HueyLong]

I actually saw a TL where Nazi Germany got thrashed a bit earlier, and there was never a Quit India movement.

The US ended upo supporting anti-colonial movements worldwide, to stop the stranglehold Britain had on the Europe it saved, and the colonies of Europe.

 

[Wendell]

U.S. vs. Brazil....

France vs. Russia...

 

[Xen]

Ive written one once where there is a mini-cold war that encompassed most of Europe, the west was led by France while Germany leads a coalition of Eastern European nations.

So Cold War between France and Germany

 

[stevep]

Well, I see most of the 20th century based TL's always keep the same scheme:

There's a devastating world war in some moment between 1900 and 1920, followed by several years of chaos and installation of authoritarian governments in the losing countries, followed by an even worse world war. After it, there's a long Cold War between the victors.

I like that scheme, so let's keep it.

Well, my point is that every Cold War is always US vs Someone Else. Of course, this is natural, just look at a world map and see why the US would always be one of the two winners in a world war, but it starts to be boring.

So, can someone else come with an alternate Cold War between the 1940's and the 1990's more original than the classics US vs Russia, US vs Germany?

My personal favorites:

- US vs British Empire. Of course that British Empire would have to be very different from OTL British Empire.
- US vs Japan
- Slightly saner victorius Nazi Germany vs Slightly insaner USSR.
- Peron's Argentina vs Mao's China after nuclear WWIII reduces the northern hemisphere to nuclear rubble/neofeudal stuff.

Dr

I think the big problem is that unless you assume something dramatic both N America and the Eurasian continent are going to be big players. Therefore anything such as a German led Europe v Russia had the 3rd player of the US. Similarly while under the right circumstances, say a racist regime coming to power in the US, it could face a stand-off with a British Commonwealth, especially once nuclear weapons gives a deterrent. However the political and to a degree military and economic centre of the latter would be in Britain and it would have to keep much of its attention on what's going on in Europe. [Unless you have something fairly extreme such as the alternative for Man in the High Castle say]. Therefore its difficult to have a cold war with only two real power blocs. Even OTL had a 3rd with China and as it recovered, respite being half occupied, Europe had at least some role to play.

You could have some wider system of alliances, with two blocs in a nuclear stand-off. Then most groups would feel strong pressure to stick with their alliance rather than find themselves isolated. [Rather like pre-WWI Europe but more so while the presence of nucs means war never {hopefully} breaks out].

Unless say you have something very extreme - say Yellowstone blew its top in the 1920's removing N America as a factor for the rest of the century. That might give the basis for a two power stand off.

On a small technicality. Germany was a defeated power and arguably Russia was as well. However the other main autocrats in WWII [Japan and Italy] were on the winning side in WWI.

Steve

 

[Straha]

I have a world where the centers of the cold war are the United States VS The Confederate States VS a Fascistic Kaiser's germany. In the late 20th century we see "nonaligned" third world powers like the ottomans, india and Brazil forming a fourth bloc(the general world politics alignment was USA and allies VS CSA and allies VS Germany and allies)

 

[Wendell]

Here's a unique one:

Khazaria vs. Sweden

 

[Kabraloth]

I find EU vs. communist China vs. enlarged Ottoman Empire particularly interesting.

Of course, there are certain assumptions:
- The Ottoman Empire has to survive intact. I think an even less competent Italy would do it here. That could mean no 1912 war, no Balkan war.
- Chinese reform movements by the emperor whose name I always forget is met with even less success, accelerating the raise of communism.
- WW1 does happen somewhat on schedule, the Ottoman Empire fights on the side of the Entente, is rewarded with Cyprus and more control over Egypt, thus creating a peace by 1916.
- During the Russian civil war (thanks to Germany's "East first" strategy, they still get soundly trashed for years, the Ottomans grab much of the Caucasus regions and create client states in the central asian region.
- Assuming a WW2 analogy with Hitler rising to power, some of the smaller Balkan states might want to ally closer with the Ottomans to not be gobbled up by the Nazis. This would be ironic, but realpolitik.
- Further assuming that WW2 happens somewhat on schedule, communist China is attacked by Japan during the first years, while the Nazis fight against the western allies and the USSR. The Ottomans stay neutral for now. Since the USA could not revive their economy with the western debts, they are completely out of the picture, essentially a second-rate power, with continuous economic crisises further weakening their industries.
- USSR falls apart during Barbarossa. Nazi Germany is taken down in 1946, by very weakened Great Britain and France, that had to make territorial concessions to gain Ottoman assistance.
- Ottomans gobble up large parts of Africa from the decaying Empires of Britain and France, Arabia, control effectively 80% of the world's oil.
- China soundly trashes Japan, absorbs the eastern remnant of the former USSR.

The three superpowers are some kind of EU (which is in further decline and nominally allied with the Ottomans), the Ottoman Empire/Pact of Constantinople, and communist China.

 

[The Vet]

- US vs British Empire. Of course that British Empire would have to be very different from OTL British Empire.

Sound like "The Grasshopper Lies Heavy"

 

[Syphon]

Somalia Vs Australia - the third world cold war

Just give it a few years with our new industrial relations laws

 

[Nekromans]

In a world where Japan turned against Nazi Germany, after papers plotting an invasion of Japan were found in the German Embassy...

In a world where the 3rd world united with Brazil, as the superpowers of the US and Japan loomed over the Earth...

In a world where the USA and the Soviet Union both fell apart, due to Separatist fanatics...

Japan vs Brazil - Rematch. DING DING!

The European Nations would have been occupied by Japan, but all of the Americas and Africa would support the 3rd world champion of Brazil.

 

[sunsurf]

Hitler assassinated in the 30s, the military takes over Germany. The Nazi atrocities are exposed, and the new government is milder. Maybe FDR was assassinated; in any case, the US stays isolationist. Japan doesn't bomb Pearl Harbor.

Germany and the USSR fight a war which ends in a draw.


Mao dies in 1927, China is divided between the Republicans, Monarchists and Communists; this includes Taiwan. US stays isolationist, maybe the USSR breaks apart and the Asian part is fought over by Japan and the various Chinese powers.

So the cold war is between the Chinas and Japan.


The Ottoman empire survives, the modern state of Israel is established by the Ottomans, becomes a US ally, Israel wants to expand at the expense of the Ottomans, so there's a cold war between Israel and the Ottoman Empire.


Taiwan gets The Bomb, so there's a cold war between Taiwan and either China, Japan, Vietnam, Australia, etc.


Hawaii stays independent, starts expanding, so there's a cold war between Hawaii and Japan. Or Hawaii and Australia.

Many blacks and Asians flee S. Africa to Brazil, which becomes a superpower.
In WW II, the Nazis and Japanese are defeated but it was far more difficult, and the US takes decades to recover and stop being isolationist.

Brazil and Argentina become superpowers.

Brazil encourages emigration of blacks and Asians from S. Africa, which is a drain on S. Africa, and hostilities between the two countries mount. Both get the Bomb, with Argentina trying to play both sides against each other and trying to get the Bomb.


The Nazis almost win WW II, and the USSR collapses; it was devastating for everybody. Eurasia is a wasteland, except Franco's Spain. Franco had secret reserves in Argentina, and takes the hidden Nazi reserves for himself.

The US takes decades to recover, and Franco's Spain is the only real power left in Europe. They take indirect control of all of Europe, exposing Nazi atrocities and using those to encourage everybody to support Franco. Japan is the only other superpower...


As above, but Moussolini and Franco are the two powers in Europe, trying to divide Europe between them. So the cold war is between Spain and Italy, with Japan also a rival, but not as important.


All of Europe is devastated in WW I, the US is isolationist, so Egypt and the Ottoman Empire are the two superpowers trying to keep China and Japan weaker then them. So the cold war is between Egypt, the Ottomans, China and Japan.