Alternate capital / high-population cities in England?

London is boring me - I must be tired of life. With any PoD you like (not geologic), what would be some alternate locations for a capital city in the Anglo-Welsh area? What are the natural advantages of London, and can those be replicated anywhere else? Bonus points for smaller OTL cities.
 
Wasn't winchester the capital of england for a while, or do I just trust ck2 modders too much?
It seems like it would be in a semi-okay position. Nothing as good as london, with the thames and all. Only problem that I can see is that it looks quite easy to attack, where raiding london has only really been done once by a foreign power (aside from france, I suppose, but they're the french.)

Although it wouldn't be as good as london because it's not in as much of a good strategic position for trade, how about york? It's fairly central in britain, has access to the sea via the ouse and foss, which lead to the humber, but it's also inland and easily defendable against amphibious assault via a well-placed fortress (castle?) or two.
 
London is the first place where you cross the Thames after crossing over from the part of the European continent closest to England. I don't know how you negate that geographic advantage. It was the largest city on the island even in Roman times. I think there have been other threads on this.

The best I can think of is to have the Danes or Norwegians gain control of England in the 11th century instead of the Normans. With links to Scandinavia more important than links to the continent, the York-Kingston-Lincoln area becomes more important and one of those cities becomes the largest cities. Even better, have the Counts of Flanders gain control of Kent, so that London becomes a border fortress.
 
I have Gloucester become the capital of a Romano-british, roman empire successor state in the wake of the anglo-saxon invasion/migration in a TL i plan on doing. They eventually subdued and "vassalized" them, and London is a major hub of north sea trade, but Gloucester is considered a safer seat of government. Plus the emperors have put a lot of work into their "white city" to make it nice.
 
Feudal fragmentation happens in England, just like in Continental Europe. England is eventually reunited by Dukes of Winchester, who took direct control over most of England and vassalize remaining duchies, among them is Duchy of London, which retains its own dynasty untill 17th century, then, after ducal House of London extinction, London is incorporated into the Crown already, but Winchester remains capital.
 
Mercia or Northumbria become dominant over Wessex and the South and York ends up being the seat of power as well as the focus for the church.
 
If Ireland and Wales are included in the English state earlier, and there's early English colonisation of the Americas, then Bristol?
 
Mercia or Northumbria become dominant over Wessex and the South and York ends up being the seat of power as well as the focus for the church.
Why would mercia have the capital way up in york? If Mercia came out on top of Wessex, they'd at least start with their capital as Tamworth. If I remember rightly, Offa of Mercia was able to have an archbishopric created nearby to try and balance out the fuss York and Canterbury got into from time to time.

'Course, they could always move later. If England remains North sea focused, London will be attractive, but Lincoln is another option.
 
You really have to come up with a way to make England's ties to the continent much, much less important and I'm not sure how to do that. You pretty much have to extend the Dark Ages to the present day.
 
Why would mercia have the capital way up in york? If Mercia came out on top of Wessex, they'd at least start with their capital as Tamworth. If I remember rightly, Offa of Mercia was able to have an archbishopric created nearby to try and balance out the fuss York and Canterbury got into from time to time.

'Course, they could always move later. If England remains North sea focused, London will be attractive, but Lincoln is another option.

Good point. I imagined for Mercia to come out on top, it would've had to be with a solid Northumbrian and Danelaw alliance so that might have swayed placement further north than a traditional purely Mercian capital might have been positioned.
 
You really have to come up with a way to make England's ties to the continent much, much less important and I'm not sure how to do that. You pretty much have to extend the Dark Ages to the present day.
London only became the capital some years after the Norman Conquest. Southampton got a lot more trade being the closest southern port to Winchester.
 
Another option could be for the City of London to evolve into a strong regional trading power (The Venice of Frisia), with the merchantile class emerging from the old Roman civic tradition to precede the rise of a strong feudal power to challenge them. Expand their dominance down the lower Thames, and you could very well see them plying their role as gateway to the Continent both to secure a strong position on the ground and play the diplomatic game to insure their independence by getting the other regional powers to protect them from the attempts of any ambitious lord from seizing such a vital locale for themselves.
 
Could a capital in the Briston Channel be good in colonial times? I'm not sure how avoiding passing through the Channel could affect things in different scenarios.

Maybe a inward looking empire could have a inland capital.
 
"London only became the capital some years after the Norman Conquest. Southampton got a lot more trade being the closest southern port to Winchester."

This is interesting and what would have happened if there had been no Norman conquest? But construction on Westminster Abbey and I think Westminster Palace started before the Normans, so Anglo-Saxon London must have been important.
 
This is interesting and what would have happened if there had been no Norman conquest? But construction on Westminster Abbey and I think Westminster Palace started before the Normans, so Anglo-Saxon London must have been important.
If no NC then Winchester continues as the royal capital. Barring no dramatic political changes it would remain so.
London was a local mint and trade centre due to its location. As trade with the low countries increases London will grow, just not as much as OTL.
 
I made a map where i drew circles around prospective areas for a capital. Map is below.
England red.png

Red:
- Cities in the region include Liverpool, Runcorn, Warrington
- Is around many estuaries, which is good for trade and administration
Purple:
- Cities in the region include Kingston upon Hull, Scunthorpe, Goole
Green:
- Cities in the region include Bristol, Gloucster
Blue:
- Cities in region include Southhampton,
 
Southampton is best for any southern-england based polity, bristol/kingston upon hull/liverpool is best for a celtic england, york is best for a north sea empire, but london is best overall.
 
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