Alternate Balkans: Larger Muslim Population?

My thoughts here, has given me an idea: WI the various national movements in the Balkans treated the Muslims as they were treated by the Ottomans?

This seems to be summed up in general as:
  • Convert? Great! Best way into the real halls of power, although the legislature and ministries have spots for those who do not.
  • Mind your own business? Okay, your taxes get raised for the draft exemption, you gotta keep the Call To Prayer down, be best if you learned the national language, etc.
  • Leave? Door, backside, you know the deal.
  • Raise the flag of revolt? Now we have problems, but the next town over will not suffer for it.

There will probably be some movement and bloodshed, but what is the overall effect in the former Ottoman lands?

HTG
 
The main problem is that Muslim had all the economic power, for example in Bulgaria almost all landowners were Muslim, which was obviously a weakness, as any government had to adress the grievances of Bulgarian peasants.
 
The main problem is that eventually the Turks are a majority in large tracts of Serbia, Bulgaria and Greece which absolutely does not fit in with the plans of the Serbian, Bulgarian and Greek governments.
 
The main problem is that Muslim had all the economic power, for example in Bulgaria almost all landowners were Muslim, which was obviously a weakness, as any government had to adress the grievances of Bulgarian peasants.
Think general land redistribution, and demands for pledges of loyalty to the new order.

HTG
 
I don't thik it's possible to have both nationalising States in formation and a larger Muslim population: just look at Bulgaria, at their birth they had almost 40% of Muslims in their territories, and in forty years, through terror, discrimination and population exchanges, they had managed to drop it at 15% !

A good PoD could be a worse showing of the Bulgarians in their various wars against the Ottomans: Rumelia stays Turkish, ends up Bulgarian after *WWI and in a now different political framework, with mass expulsion temporarily unfashionable, they have to come to terms with the large Rumelian Muslim population. Either that, or just keeping Thrace and Rumelia in Turkish hands will serve for more Muslims in the Balkans. Little chance that you get better numbers in Greece, while Albania and Yugoslavia were already tolerant with their Muslim group (unsurpisingly in the Albanian case, as they were the majority of the population :D ) .
 

Susano

Banned
Think general land redistribution, and demands for pledges of loyalty to the new order.

HTG

Yeah, thats what was done to the German minority in Romania after WW1, as they all had on average larger farming lands than the ethnic Romanians. Of course, they also never formed a coherent majority anywhere, unlike the Muslims after those countries got independence, as rightly said by Grimm. This little factoid was kinda undermining the legitimacy of them - one cant really say the Muslims supress the population when most the population is in fact Muslim, eh?
 
It's very difficult to have the Balkan states recognize the Muslim populations that lived there. I think the best way to keep a large Muslim plurality if not a majority in the Balkans is to have the Ottoman presence there continue on.
 
It's very difficult to have the Balkan states recognize the Muslim populations that lived there. I think the best way to keep a large Muslim plurality if not a majority in the Balkans is to have the Ottoman presence there continue on.
Most probable at least, but I was postulating a change in the nature/attitudes of the incipient national movements to begin with....

HTG
 

Don Grey

Banned
My thoughts here, has given me an idea: WI the various national movements in the Balkans treated the Muslims as they were treated by the Ottomans?


This seems to be summed up in general as:
  • Convert? Great! Best way into the real halls of power, although the legislature and ministries have spots for those who do not.
  • Mind your own business? Okay, your taxes get raised for the draft exemption, you gotta keep the Call To Prayer down, be best if you learned the national language, etc.
  • Leave? Door, backside, you know the deal.
  • Raise the flag of revolt? Now we have problems, but the next town over will not suffer for it.
There will probably be some movement and bloodshed, but what is the overall effect in the former Ottoman lands?

HTG

I see it as a hard one because nationalism had got underway and that why so many were keen to leave. Now since nationalism was still somewhat primitive at the time specialy in the balkans religion was a factor. You could be full blooded native bulgarian but if your muslim your still screwed. Another example is the serbs tryed it again in the 90's so there nationalism didnt evolve into something more tolerant. You have to change nationalism in the balkans and if you do that then they just might not want to split apart from the ottomans.
 
I see it as a hard one because nationalism had got underway and that why so many were keen to leave. Now since nationalism was still somewhat primitive at the time specialy in the balkans religion was a factor. You could be full blooded native bulgarian but if your muslim your still screwed. Another example is the serbs tryed it again in the 90's so there nationalism didnt evolve into something more tolerant. You have to change nationalism in the balkans and if you do that then they just might not want to split apart from the ottomans.

You have to make it so that there is a different factor affecting Balkan nationalism than mere religion. Perhaps language though that might actually be worse for everyone but at least the Muslims wouldn't be persecuted. Especially in the case of the Greeks, you need to remove the logic that was popular as Turk = Muslim, Greek = Christian.
 
Top