Alternate American Space Program (mid-1960s Onwards)

[e of pi]

Can that calculate the kind of rocket you would need to return something to Earth (or at least Earth orbit) as well? I'm thinking something like Viking/Luna or Lunokhod doing sample return from Mars (possibly other bodies).

Not really. For that, you'd need to just set up your own spreadsheet.

 

[Delta Force]

I'm still looking into American space programs of the era, but I found an interesting tidbit. Apparently the Saturn I and Saturn IB both used eight Jupiter fuel tanks and eight Redstone fuel tanks in their first stages. Jupiter of course launched Explorer 1 and Redstone launched Alan Shepard. America's final manned mission before STS-1 was the Apollo-Soyuz Test Flight, which used a Saturn IB to launch the Apollo CSM. Thus, the first and last missions of America's early space history were launched by the Redstone and its derivatives (of which Jupiter was one).

 

[Michel Van]

Some vehicle families that were prominent in this era (other variants and families are possible):
-- Advanced Gemini
-- Apollo
-- Big Gemini
-- Dyna-Soar

Dyna Soar aka X-20 was death end
planned under BOMI and ROBO as manned Orbital Bomber and reconnaissance space plane
it lose first the Bomber role to the ICBM, Manned space flight to Mercury Capsule and reconnaissance to Discovery Satellite
so Sectary of Defense McNamara killed the program, that had much delays and no practical use.

Gemini vs Apollo

Gemini is excellent Spacecraft, but was a interim program between Mercury and Apollo
in fact Apollo was planned BEFOR JFK "We shall go to Moon" as 3 man orbital spacecraft with option for flight around the Moon and get back
those plans were modified to Lunar orbit rendezvous for landing mission in july 1962.
But no one had tested a rendezvous in space and Mercury was unusable for task, while Apollo space craft had to be build.
so Gemini was born as quick and dirty program that was quite successful
but as program end NASA show no interest in further Gemini Flights like Advance Mission or Gemini Ferry for Space Station or flight around the Moon.
NASA administration even consider this as "counterproductive" and obstruction for Apollo program.
so Gemini ended in USAF after X-20 death as Manned Orbiting Laboratory
but MOL was cancelled in 1969, so McDonnell Douglas try to sell MOL to NASA, no interest because Skylab was build and served by Apollo CSM.
here is a twist, NASA wanted to build bigger Space station with 12 to 50 men onboard after Skylab.
but the Apollo CSM could carry maximal 6 astronauts with little supply in orbit, so the big station needed 9 apollo docking ports.
McDonnell Douglas proposed a enlarge Gemini with 12 astronauts and 2.5 tons supply.
but there came the Space Shuttle and Big Gemini remained a Mock-up

i wonder what happened if Gemini had be a join venture between NASA & USAF as proposed by Sectary of Defense McNamara?

 

[Delta Force]

Dyna Soar aka X-20 was death end
planned under BOMI and ROBO as manned Orbital Bomber and reconnaissance space plane
it lose first the Bomber role to the ICBM, Manned space flight to Mercury Capsule and reconnaissance to Discovery Satellite
so Sectary of Defense McNamara killed the program, that had much delays and no practical use.

I saw a video once on the internet about the Dyna-Soar as a nuclear bomber. Seemed like a rather strange concept since a missile could launch a larger warhead instead of Dyna-Soar and a warhead.

in fact Apollo was planned BEFOR JFK "We shall go to Moon" as 3 man orbital spacecraft with option for flight around the Moon and get back
those plans were modified to Lunar orbit rendezvous for landing mission in july 1962.

I know Gemini was originally planned for a circumlunar flight, but where did you read that it was at one point to seat three crew instead of two?

here is a twist, NASA wanted to build bigger Space station with 12 to 50 men onboard after Skylab.

Was that Space Station Freedom or something else? I never heard of Freedom being proposed with such a large crew. It did go through many iterations, so that might have been an early proposal.

but the Apollo CSM could carry maximal 6 astronauts with little supply in orbit, so the big station needed 9 apollo docking ports.

Skylab Rescue could only fit five people. I suppose if you took the tools out you could fit six in though. Do you have a source for the Apollo ferry and space station?

i wonder what happened if Gemini had be a join venture between NASA & USAF as proposed by Sectary of Defense McNamara?

It might have become an American Soyuz. Of course, it might have suffered the same fate as the Space Shuttle, becoming a bloated design capable of doing just about everything, except not very well.

 

[Delta Force]

Also, another thought. The Titans used toxic rocket fuel, and later versions they used solid rocket boosters. What if Titan were to have suffered lower stage and/or solid rocket booster failures shortly after launch, showing their launch site with toxic debris? A similar low level failure led the Soviets to specify non-toxic propellent for their later launch vehicles. Would the Titan keep on flying regardless of such a disaster (it did after the 1986 incident), or might a new rocket (perhaps something as simple as a Titan with new fuel) be developed to replace it?

 

[Michel Van]

I saw a video once on the internet about the Dyna-Soar as a nuclear bomber. Seemed like a rather strange concept since a missile could launch a larger warhead instead of Dyna-Soar and a warhead.

no, simply WW2 thinking in begin of Space age, the analyst not beliefs that ICBM could hit accurate a target unmanned.

I know Gemini was originally planned for a circumlunar flight, but where did you read that it was at one point to seat three crew instead of two?

Gemini, it start as advance Mercury mark II spacecraft, McDonnell proposed even for Lunar landing mission, but Apollo was already there.
original Gemini was planned as 2 men capsule but that not stop McDonnell to enlarge the capsule in back and put some extra seat in place up to 10 men maximum .
like Gemini Lunar Surface Rescue
or Rescue Gemini for 5 men.
and Big Gemini with 12 men

[Gemini]It might have become an American Soyuz. Of course, it might have suffered the same fate as the Space Shuttle, becoming a bloated design capable of doing just about everything, except not very well.

that is the prize you pay if the spacecraft has to be universal...

Was that Space Station Freedom or something else? I never heard of Freedom being proposed with such a large crew. It did go through many iterations, so that might have been an early proposal.

that was the 1960s Space Base concept a build from 10 mø module launch by ten Saturn V

but as Shuttle was taken, the module size went down to Payload bay, for Freedom that was consived in end of 1980s...

Skylab Rescue could only fit five people. I suppose if you took the tools out you could fit six in though. Do you have a source for the Apollo ferry and space station?

Rockwell had design a 6 men Apollo Logistic spacecraft, the CSM was heavy redesign
Servis Modul replace by Cargo Module
with tanks and descent Engine from LM ! (in size of Agena stage, only better), This is surround by 4 Cargo Canister 3254 kg of usable cargo.
CM adaped for 6 Astronauts (mass 4999 kg), Launch by Saturn IB or Titan-IIIC

sadly no link at NTRS for the moment.