Alternate Aircraft of Nations
- Thread starter Count of Crisco
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An A7M4 Reppu fighter of the 1st Kokutai from the aircraft carrier Katsuragi which was based out of the Yokosuka Naval District, circa 1951-1957.
The A7M4 variant of the Reppu fighter was the final variant of the A7M series of fighters and was the last piston engine fighter to enter service with the Imperial Japanese Navy (which it would enter service in 1948) and would be produced from 1948 to 1955 with a total of 2,943 airframes manufactured. The aircraft would feature a Mitsubishi MK9E engine with a five bladed propeller which produced a top speed of 424 mph and was armed with four 20mm cannons in the wings and could carry 12 65mm rockets and 2,000 pounds of bombs. The plane was also one of the first aircraft produced by Japan to feature an ejection set system. The A7M4 variant would serve the Imperial Japanese Navy all the to the end of the 1960s when it was finally replaced by the T2M Taifu attack aircraft. The reason that the A7M4 remained in service for that long was the fact that though it was designed as a fighter, it was soon found out that it could excel well in the ground attack role.
Hercules was considered as an alternative powerplant for Hurricane, together with Napier Dagger and RR Giffon. No experiments, however, for either of the two A/C.
Finns engineered retractable U/C for their Fokkers, speed gain was up to 20 km/h (!). link to an excellent thread
Further on-topic:
Soviets make the 'alt MiG-23' as a simpler aircraft, no swing-wing, something like the Mirage F-1, or like the Ye-8 prototype. Consequences: lower price & easier to maintain than OTL MiG-23 -> more examples produced and exported.
MiG-29 is designed as 1-engined fighter, more or less looking like Soviet take on F-16 theme. Consequences - lower price, less costly to fly and maintain, better range, spin-offs still produced in this century (with 3D exhaust nozzle, AF-41 engine, AESA radar, diverter-less intake...).
EE Lightning designed with engines side-a-side, so much more fuel can be carried internally.
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I have an odd love-hate relationship with the Phantom. One of the two versions I'd like to have seen enter service was the proposed F-4(FV)S or "Swing-Wing" version with updated engines, more on-board fuel, new landing gear and avionics. Beings it was also pitched to Britain with Spey engines had the US Navy shown enough interest I'm pretty sure that most other Phantom users would have eventually converted. Therein lays the problem as the US Navy was instead aiming for a "Fleet Defender" aircraft capable of carrying the massive AWG-9 radar system and it's attendant AIM-54 Phoenix missile which the F-4 airframe wasn't going to be able to do. (Originally supposed to be the F-111B but in the end the F-14)
Randy
Randy
Instead of Orao/IAR-93, have Yugoslavia and Romania modify the MiG-21. Shape of wing being better suited to lower speeds (something like the Chinese versions gotten), the air intakes of split type, not unlike the JL-9 trainer. Should allow for better payload to be carried, more internal fuel and/or allectronics, and improve maeuverability due to the improved wing and intakes. Even if the speed drops down to, say, 1.7 Mach, that is way better than thir OTL product did. Will also stand some chances for export, especially after 1989, and a lot could've been scavenged from MiG-21s to keep the respective fleets going. Later, Romanians will probably modernize it with Israeli and/or French electronics & armament.
'Super F-14' - fixed, "mission adaptive wings", all-digital electronics, low-observability intakes, vectoring nozzles, latest F-110 engines, with option to swap the cannon & ammo for ECM electronics.
U-1/U-60/AH-1/AH-64/Mi-8/Mi-25/Puma: have also the pusher rotor and a bit bigger stub wings.
'Super F-14' - fixed, "mission adaptive wings", all-digital electronics, low-observability intakes, vectoring nozzles, latest F-110 engines, with option to swap the cannon & ammo for ECM electronics.
U-1/U-60/AH-1/AH-64/Mi-8/Mi-25/Puma: have also the pusher rotor and a bit bigger stub wings.
In 1982 the Royal Auxiliary Air Force begins replacing its aging Folland Gnat F2's and Hawker Hunter FGA9's with the new Hawk 200.
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FK.58 fighter with French colors during the German invasion.
Large numbers of these fighters were ordered by the increasingly desperate French airforce in 1938 in response to the chaos of their own domestic aviation industry, which was in the midst of a major reorganization effort, the French would also sign orders for the rival Fokker D.XXI and American built Curtiss P-36 Hawk. An order for 300 of the fighters was signed in 1938, with forty aircraft delivered by the outbreak of WWII with the German invasion of Poland.
At the time of the wars outbreak Koolhaven had produced almost one hundred fighters in addition to those which had been delivered to France. Armed and fully equipped these aircraft would languish in storage until the Dutch airforce hastily purchased the aircraft in the weeks before the Germans invaded the country. Training and introduction into service began at a quickened pace, alongside the Fokker D.XXI's which had also been produced.
The Germans quickly overpowered the Dutch defenses and began smashing through air defense units. Only a single squadron equipped with the FK.58 would actually see service before the fall of the Netherlands. However eighty of the aircraft, fully armed and fueled, would flee across the English channel to the UK, escorting the convoy carrying the Dutch royal family and most of the government.
Hastily brought into RAF service FK.58s played a minor role in the battle of Britain before they were sent off to North Africa to replace losses suffered there, serving well against Italian fighter types, and even scoring victories against German machines. The last operational FK.58 unit retired the type in 1941 after they ran out of spare parts and they then converted to the Hawker Hurricane.
Just a quick tangent of mine. Always liked the Koolhaven FK.58. Hopefully the above makes sense, I was writing it on a bus on my phone so no guarantees.
Does anyone know if the Fokker C.X would have served as a decent trainer? In a timeline I am working Fokker has a significant presence in my main nation, and I already have them using the C.X as a bomber and recce aircraft, I'm wondering if it could have been used in the training role as well. Say in the 1938-45 period.
Driftless
Donor
The DEI air arm apparently used them as trainers for a time. Did they come with dual controls from the factory, or was that a field modification?
In my timeline the nation using the aircraft has the capacity to license build the planes with Kestrel engines, so installing tandem controls is not really an issue because they could fit them into newly build examples. What I am more interested in is whether or not the planes have characteristics which would recommend them to the trainer role. I did not know the DEI air arm used them as such, but was that because of their easy handling for rookie pilots, or because they had nothing else?
Jim Balaya
Banned
There is my "Rolls Royce Spey" wanky fantasy world somewhere... basically, that turbofan was seemingly ubiquitous in many projects all around the world between 1960 and 1980.
In fact it could have achieved a kind of "Grand Slam" had history turned a little differently...
- Great Britain: Phantom and Buccaneer, obviously. Hawker P.1154 had two of them at some point...
- France > SNECMA > every single Mirage prototype in the 60's, plus Sud Aviation big Vautour update from 1965 (Tsikklon for Israel)
- Sweden > Medway big brother for the Viggen
- Italy & Brazil, for the AMX (OTL)
- USA > Allison TF41, obviously > A-7 got it OTL, but how about F-111 and Tomcat ?
- China > can't remember if it happened OTL or not.
- And don't start me on the civilian variants. Had Trident not been stupidly shrunk against the 727... !
Never found another turbojet / turbofan engine that come so close from "scoring" in such a number of different aerospace powers !
In fact it could have achieved a kind of "Grand Slam" had history turned a little differently...
- Great Britain: Phantom and Buccaneer, obviously. Hawker P.1154 had two of them at some point...
- France > SNECMA > every single Mirage prototype in the 60's, plus Sud Aviation big Vautour update from 1965 (Tsikklon for Israel)
- Sweden > Medway big brother for the Viggen
- Italy & Brazil, for the AMX (OTL)
- USA > Allison TF41, obviously > A-7 got it OTL, but how about F-111 and Tomcat ?
- China > can't remember if it happened OTL or not.
- And don't start me on the civilian variants. Had Trident not been stupidly shrunk against the 727... !
Never found another turbojet / turbofan engine that come so close from "scoring" in such a number of different aerospace powers !
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Palestinian Air Force 1968
Fighters
Hawker Hunter
Mig-19
Dassault Mystere IV
Ground Attack
A-4
Mig-17
BAC Strikemaster
Bombers
EE Canberra
Ilyshin Il-28
Maritime Patrol
Avro Shackleton
Lockheed P-3 Orion
Transport
AN-2
C-47
Shorts Belfast
DHC-3 Otter
Boeing KC-97 Stratotanker
Trainers
DH Chipmunk
BAC Strikemaster
Folland Gnat
Fighters
Hawker Hunter
Mig-19
Dassault Mystere IV
Ground Attack
A-4
Mig-17
BAC Strikemaster
Bombers
EE Canberra
Ilyshin Il-28
Maritime Patrol
Avro Shackleton
Lockheed P-3 Orion
Transport
AN-2
C-47
Shorts Belfast
DHC-3 Otter
Boeing KC-97 Stratotanker
Trainers
DH Chipmunk
BAC Strikemaster
Folland Gnat
Government Aircraft Factory Brumby, the standard home defence fighter and ground attack aircraft of the Royal Australian Air Force from 1938 to 1943.
IIRC, there was actually a variant of the Rolls-Royce Spey proposed for the F-14. It was designated the Detroit Diesel Allison Model 912-B32. It would’ve generated 17,000 lbf of thrust dry and 27,000 lbf on afterburner.
Romania was designing an aircraft with the Spey before the 1989 revolution, called the IAR-95. I believe Yugoslavia was offered or desired a Spey version of the Orao too.
In 1937 despite British objections the Royal Australian Air Force selects the Savoia-Marcheti 79 as its preferred Patrol Bomber and Transport. Licenced production begins at the new Government Aircraft Factory in January 1939.
And it's structure is low tech enough that Australia could build it without too much difficulty once it had a source of engines.