Thande
Donor
I think someone forgot to tell Uganda that
(see here for a good resource: http://www.pilotfriend.com/world_facts/world/roundels/r_u.htm )
Alternate Air Force roundels and other symbols
- Thread starter Thande
- Start date
I think someone forgot to tell Uganda that
(see here for a good resource: http://www.pilotfriend.com/world_facts/world/roundels/r_u.htm )
Eh, I'm sure someone could train someone to paint it - only thing they'd do, but...
This is one of God only knows how many roundels I've designed for my stories that never seem to go anywhere...although I have improved myself, depending on the POD: There's one where the POD is during WWI, and that world has most of their roundels in circles; the one I'm making a serious attempt at writing now has a wide variety of shapes, such as this one for New England (based off of East Germany's roudnel; it's actually on the New England Air Force flag, but it still looks good):
EDIT: Added image by itself on gray background as well.
This is one of God only knows how many roundels I've designed for my stories that never seem to go anywhere...although I have improved myself, depending on the POD: There's one where the POD is during WWI, and that world has most of their roundels in circles; the one I'm making a serious attempt at writing now has a wide variety of shapes, such as this one for New England (based off of East Germany's roudnel; it's actually on the New England Air Force flag, but it still looks good
):EDIT: Added image by itself on gray background as well.
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I think someone forgot to tell Uganda that
(see here for a good resource: http://www.pilotfriend.com/world_facts/world/roundels/r_u.htm )
The Ugandans have stolen our stencil technology!!!
Also, cool New England flag.
Rival American Air Forces
If there was a second American Civil War, by which I mean a Red vs Blue civil war, I wonder what emblems each side would use to mark their vehicles and aircraft? I figure both sides would probably claim to be the lawful US government, but it would create a lot of problems if both used the old US flag and insignia. Our current low-viz markings would probably be abandoned: camouflage would be less important than the ability to distinguish your tanks and planes from those of the enemy.
I believe that since most of the military would probably favor the conservative Red side, the Blues would lack armor, at least in the beginning. You would probably see some cool technicals, hammered together out of requisitioned trucks and fitted with machine guns and improvised armor, like in the Russian, Irish, Spanish, and Lebanese civil wars, marked with patriotic slogans and colorful cockades.
The NATO alliance would probably recognize one faction as legitimate, and send troops to help put down the other. Or, volunteer troops from around the world might form International Brigades like they did in the Spanish Civil War, and come to America to join the fight (American volunteers fought in the Mexican Revolution too, by the way). These forces would use their own flags and markings.
I guess the simpler the emblems chosen, the better. The colors would have to be very distinct, to minimize the chances of fratricide, which would occur in any case as both sides would be using the same vehicles and aircraft. I believe our military have some kind of electronic gizmo that "talks" to an approaching jet, and says, in effect, "Don't shoot, brother, I'm not a Venezuelan F-16, I'm an American F-16!" But I think there would still be painted markings, to tell the two sides apart.
Can anyone think of some cool flags and roundels for my hypothetical Red and Blue air forces?
If there was a second American Civil War, by which I mean a Red vs Blue civil war, I wonder what emblems each side would use to mark their vehicles and aircraft? I figure both sides would probably claim to be the lawful US government, but it would create a lot of problems if both used the old US flag and insignia. Our current low-viz markings would probably be abandoned: camouflage would be less important than the ability to distinguish your tanks and planes from those of the enemy.
I believe that since most of the military would probably favor the conservative Red side, the Blues would lack armor, at least in the beginning. You would probably see some cool technicals, hammered together out of requisitioned trucks and fitted with machine guns and improvised armor, like in the Russian, Irish, Spanish, and Lebanese civil wars, marked with patriotic slogans and colorful cockades.
The NATO alliance would probably recognize one faction as legitimate, and send troops to help put down the other. Or, volunteer troops from around the world might form International Brigades like they did in the Spanish Civil War, and come to America to join the fight (American volunteers fought in the Mexican Revolution too, by the way). These forces would use their own flags and markings.
I guess the simpler the emblems chosen, the better. The colors would have to be very distinct, to minimize the chances of fratricide, which would occur in any case as both sides would be using the same vehicles and aircraft. I believe our military have some kind of electronic gizmo that "talks" to an approaching jet, and says, in effect, "Don't shoot, brother, I'm not a Venezuelan F-16, I'm an American F-16!" But I think there would still be painted markings, to tell the two sides apart.
Can anyone think of some cool flags and roundels for my hypothetical Red and Blue air forces?
Actually, I have read in a book about the Curtiss JN-4D Jenny that the star-in-a-circle was briefly adopted in 1917, until the Americans started flying in France. At that time the star was dropped in favor of the Roundel that you describe because of the identification issues. After the war, it was brought back, albeit in a somewhat different location. The earlier location was halfway to two-thirds in from the wingtip to the centerline; the latter location was no more than one-quarter in.
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The Air Force of the Republic of Quebec!
Also one of the easiest things I've ever made
Close, but I think (based on the Quebec flag) that the dark blue and red would be replaced with a powder-blue color.
So it was, a very Kalevala-ish symbol (hakaristi, etymologically from the same base as hakkors or Hakenkreutz). This has to be pointed out because today is Aleksis Kivi Day aka the Finnish Literature Day...
The swastika was by used the national romantic painter Akseli Gallen-Kallela since the 1890s as a decorative motif in many of his Kalevala-themed works. After 1917 Gallen-Kallela received a commission to design most of the heraldry and symbols to be used by the young nation, presidential and military decorations etc. etc. and put the swastika almost everywhere.
This was to be sort of an embarrasment later, for example when President De Gaulle received the Grand Cross of the Order of the White Rose from President Kekkonen in 1962, with a chain heavily laden with swastikas...
The chain was modified the following year.
But for the specific use by the Finnish Air Force the swastika was appropriated from the Swedish Count Eric von Rosen, who had used is as his personal lucky symbol at least since 1901: it was painted on the Morane-Saulnier Parasol he donated to the Finnish Army in 1918.
Von Rosen, however, was not a stranger to Nazis. He was a prominent member of the Swedish national socialists in the 30s, and his wife's sister was Hermann Göring's first wife. It was not so simple, though: Von Rosen and Göring, the avid aviationists, had met before Göring joined the Nazis, who, in turn had adopted the swastika also before Göring joined forces with them. So the connection with von Rosen's swastika and the Nazi one was almost certainly merely a shared fascination with Germanic mythology.
After the formation of the Finnish Air Force as a separate entity, Gallen-Kallela had to design the pilots' badge. With the availabel options, he was more than happy to give the swastika a prominent part in it. And it stuck. (When I did my time in the service, being Air Force, I still marched in a parade following a flag with a swastika in it.)
Thus you are right: in many Naziless timelines Finland would be probably the only nation in the world that has the swastika as a national symbol for the air force and maybe for armored units too (as it was OTL).
Maybe it would even be known as the "Finnish cross" ITTL...
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In Harry Turtledove's "American Empire" series, as you may know, the U.S. occupation authorities in Canada create a puppet Republic of Quebec, which has its own armed forces. Turtledove never mentions a Quebecois air force, but it can be assumed that they have some kind of small air arm.
...What does that have to do with Quebec blue (which is, in fact, only slightly lighter than that of the roundel)?
I know in World War I, one of our planes (U.S.) had a swastika as part of the art painted on the sides of the bi-plane. I think there was also a side view of an American Indian with a swastika on his headress that was painted on one of our bi-planes as well. I know the swastika was also part of American Indian culture.
I know since World War II, we have had IFF gear, Identification - Friend or Foe, so I'm sure we have such systems today. As to Red & Blue roundels or markings, I don't know, but I've always thought the Confederate Battle Flag would look cool on a plane. I know my preference is showing, I tend to favor the Red side more so I also like the old "Don't Tread On Me" snake flag or the old Vermont Pine Tree with the caption, "an appeal to heaven." Maybe taking a page from the TV show, "Jericho," perhaps one side will use an U.S. flag with vertical red and white stripes.
There was a USArmy infantry division that used a yellow swastika on a red shield as it's symbol until the 1930's. They changed it for an Indian head IIRC. It's mentioned in the swastika article at wikipedia.
The alternative symbols of the Royal Finnish Air Force in a CP-victorious timeline.
"The first symbol to be used by the Royal Finnish Air Force was based on the black cross of the German Luftstreitkräfte. It was modified for Finnish use by Captain (Hauptmann) Carl Seber by changing the cross blue and including the Finnish lion, as depicted in the red state flag adopted during 1917. The similarity with the unit flag of the Finnish Jäger Battalion is striking. Seber, who brought the first German aircraft (a D.F.W. C.V) to Finland in March 1918, become the first commander of the Royal Finnish Air Force.
This was, however, to be a temporary solution. The painter Akseli Gallen-Kallela had designed a special badge for Finnish pilots featuring a swastika; after official approval he used the same design in the new Air Force symbol adopted in January 1919. This new, more elegant design included the full coat of arms of the young Kingdom.
The third, simplified design was adopted by Colonel Jarl Lundqvist (Air Force Commander 1928-40). It is said that he considered the old symbol too cluttered and hard to distinguish from afar. An alternative explanation, however, is that Lundqvist, who was a Republican at heart and not happy with the policies of King Friedrich Karl, removed the crowned coat-of-arms as a jab at fellow Air Force officers, of whom many were staunch Royalists. Be as it may, the symbol has lasted this way over the last four decades..."
From Eino Jutikkala & Jorma Karhunen: The Wings of the Lion - the First 50 Years of the Royal Finnish Air Force. C.W.Holmström Osakeyhtiö, Viipuri, 1969.
"The first symbol to be used by the Royal Finnish Air Force was based on the black cross of the German Luftstreitkräfte. It was modified for Finnish use by Captain (Hauptmann) Carl Seber by changing the cross blue and including the Finnish lion, as depicted in the red state flag adopted during 1917. The similarity with the unit flag of the Finnish Jäger Battalion is striking. Seber, who brought the first German aircraft (a D.F.W. C.V) to Finland in March 1918, become the first commander of the Royal Finnish Air Force.
This was, however, to be a temporary solution. The painter Akseli Gallen-Kallela had designed a special badge for Finnish pilots featuring a swastika; after official approval he used the same design in the new Air Force symbol adopted in January 1919. This new, more elegant design included the full coat of arms of the young Kingdom.
The third, simplified design was adopted by Colonel Jarl Lundqvist (Air Force Commander 1928-40). It is said that he considered the old symbol too cluttered and hard to distinguish from afar. An alternative explanation, however, is that Lundqvist, who was a Republican at heart and not happy with the policies of King Friedrich Karl, removed the crowned coat-of-arms as a jab at fellow Air Force officers, of whom many were staunch Royalists. Be as it may, the symbol has lasted this way over the last four decades..."
From Eino Jutikkala & Jorma Karhunen: The Wings of the Lion - the First 50 Years of the Royal Finnish Air Force. C.W.Holmström Osakeyhtiö, Viipuri, 1969.
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