Alternate 1st Washington Cabinet

This is for my current TL and since we have seen a recent spate of these I thought I would throw it out there and see what people thought.

The concept of the TL is that John Laurens survives the battle that killed him in OTL and goes on to be influential in American politics. For those of you who don't know, Laurens was a scion of a South Carolina slaveholding and slave trading family. He served on Washington's staff and was a good friend of Hamilton and the Marquis de Lafeyette. One of the things he advocated and became famous for was for the use of black troops during the ARW. He was widely regarded as a check on Hamilton's more emotional outbursts.

I wanted a plausibility check on this because Wiki said that Hamilton worked actively to defeat Adams but there was no citation and I know Hamilton worked against Adams later in 1796 and 1800 but in 1789 they barely knew each other. Adams was in England or the Netherlands (can't remember which) during the convention. It is conceivable that people would rally to Jay instead as he was active at the Convention of 1788 and was as accomplished a statesman as existed in America; although he largely been forgotten except for his treaty. In this situation is it possible for John Marshall to be Chief Justice in 1789?

POTUS: George Washington (Virginia)
VPOTUS: John Jay (NY)
Sec. of War: Henry Knox (Mass)
Sec. of the Navy: John Adams (Mass)
Sec. of State: John Laurens (SC)
Sec. of Treasury: Alexander Hamilton (NY)
Min. to France: Governeur Morris (NY?)
Min. to England: Hugh Williamson (NC)

Note: I left Jefferson off for a reason. He was widely seen as a coward and only during the political infighting of the mid-late 1790s did he become politically viable because he was the intellectual well spring of the anti-federal movement. TJ is the strategist, and Madison the tactician. Since I am removing him (TJ) from a position of power and patronage I am hoping to stunt the Anti-Federal movement. One little known fact by the community at large was that Jefferson was actively working to undermine Washington while at State by hiring a man named Philip Freneau as a translator but in fact Jefferson empowered Frenau by using govt. money to subsidize Freneau's anti-administration newspaper.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
Well since you've been so helpful to me when I posted these sorts of threads, I suppose I ought to return the favor ;)

President: George Washington (VA)

Vice President: John Jay (NY)
Secretary of State: John Adams (MA)
Secretary of the Treasury: Alexander Hamilton (NY)
Attorney General: Edmund Randolph (VA)
Secretary of War: Henry Knox (MA)


(Secretary of the Navy didn't exist in Washington's time; John Adams created the post)
 
(Secretary of the Navy didn't exist in Washington's time; John Adams created the post)

Any reason I can't butterfly it in? I think Washington could make an argument it is a necessary dept? After all the American dream is a commericial one?

Damn forgot the AG yes leave Randolph. thanks!!!
 
POTUS: George Washington (VA)
VPOTUS: John Jay (NY)
Sec. of War: Henry Knox (Mass)
Sec. of the Navy: John Laurens (SC)
Sec. of State: John Adams (Mass)
Sec. of Treasury: Alexander Hamilton (NY)
Attorney General: Edmund Randolph (VA)
Min. to France: Governeur Morris (NY?)
Min. to England: Hugh Williamson (NC)

Minister to Spain? Do I need one? John Quincy Adams? I plan on Washington having a foreign policy crisis occur somewhere in Africa and is Spain important enough for that to matter or do they just need English/French approval to attack. (not real approval but there "permission"
 

Thande

Donor
Any reason I can't butterfly it in? I think Washington could make an argument it is a necessary dept?

The USA didn't have a navy between 1785 when the Continental Navy was abolished and 1797 when the USN was established in response to Barbary pirates raiding American shipping.
 
Mr. Marty,

It is good to see you back on the Early Republic I few thoughts:
1. JA was Minister to GB during the Constitutional Convention but I believe he was back in time for the first election. By reputation and service he was clearly the first choice for VP, if he wanted it. If he did not, I think John Jay was the Northerner with the second highest number of votes and therefore is a good choice for VP.
2. If JA does not want to be VP (perhaps perceiving how useless an office it would turn out to be) he would probably have been considered for either Chief Justice (the post that Jay received in OTL) or Secretary of State.
3. I do not believe that JA and AH really knew each other very well before 1789 in OTL. In OTL JA loyally supported AH's financial program but I do not believe he really understood it. JA was an excellent lawyer and a perceptive political philosopher but, like TJ and JM he had no head for figures and probably did not understand compound interest, let alone securitzation of debt and the uses of currency. I believe that JA's intense hatred for AH began sometime later in the Washington Adminstration when JA realized how out of the loop he was and reached its fruition in his Adminstration when he discovered that AH was secretly directing the work of several of his cabinet (Pickering and McHenry).
4. I believe that you are being a bit harsh on TJ (I can't believe I just said that). His flight from Monticello during the ARW was controversial, but not disabling. He had done good work in France and GW still respected him. More importantly, GW was convinced that his first cabinet had to be geographically balanced so with JA as VP and AH and Knox in it, he needed a Southerner and TJ was the most senior and respected Virginian other than Patrick Henry (who had been a leadinhg anti-Federalist). As you point out, TJ's active undermining of the Adminstration in which he served and his sponsorship of anti GW newspaper articles caused GW to decide that TJ could not be trusted. If the Secretary of State position is filled by Jay or Adams, I think TJ is considered for AJ and GW looks for a Southerner as Secretary of War for balance. John Laurens (!!!!) might be a bit young but could be a good choice.
5. Henry Knox as Secretary of War was actually in charge of naval affairs in the GW Adminstration, including construction of the first six frigates. Poor Henry is often, with Jay, the overlooked Founding Brother. He was a stallwart and imaginative General, an able adminstrator, much more progressive about Indian matters than most and a likeable guy. I guess fat people just don't get any respect.

Pleas keep up your good work as our leading chronicler of how the Early Republic could have developed differently.

Your servant
AH
 
The USA didn't have a navy between 1785 when the Continental Navy was abolished and 1797 when the USN was established in response to Barbary pirates raiding American shipping.

I was well aware of this. but thanks. I am thinking of adding the position for reasons that will become clear in my next update of Laurens Lives!
 
1. JA was Minister to GB during the Constitutional Convention but I believe he was back in time for the first election. By reputation and service he was clearly the first choice for VP, if he wanted it. If he did not, I think John Jay was the Northerner with the second highest number of votes and therefore is a good choice for VP.

So he is still too staggeringly qualified to butterfly to another position like Sec. of State? He was if I remember correctly one of most capable diplomats we had. John Jay did have the 2nd most votes but it was by quite a bit like 30 some votes to Jay's 5.

2. If JA does not want to be VP (perhaps perceiving how useless an office it would turn out to be) he would probably have been considered for either Chief Justice (the post that Jay received in OTL) or Secretary of State.

I really want him at Sec. of State. If I do this who would become 1st Chief Justice? John Rutledge was considered but he was withdrawn because of his Anti-Federal views and then I believe Jay was settled on and then Jay resigned to become Minister to England and then there was a few people and then we got John Marshall. Is it possible for John Marshall to become the 1st CJOTSCOTUS?

3. I do not believe that JA and AH really knew each other very well before 1789 in OTL. In OTL JA loyally supported AH's financial program but I do not believe he really understood it. JA was an excellent lawyer and a perceptive political philosopher but, like TJ and JM he had no head for figures and probably did not understand compound interest, let alone securitzation of debt and the uses of currency. I believe that JA's intense hatred for AH began sometime later in the Washington Adminstration when JA realized how out of the loop he was and reached its fruition in his Adminstration when he discovered that AH was secretly directing the work of several of his cabinet (Pickering and McHenry).

I agree. I don't believe they will ever be friends ITTL. They were just to alike in some ways and too different in others. Basically I expect Hamilton and Adams will be able to get a long.

4. I believe that you are being a bit harsh on TJ (I can't believe I just said that). His flight from Monticello during the ARW was controversial, but not disabling. He had done good work in France and GW still respected him. More importantly, GW was convinced that his first cabinet had to be geographically balanced so with JA as VP and AH and Knox in it, he needed a Southerner and TJ was the most senior and respected Virginian other than Patrick Henry (who had been a leadinhg anti-Federalist). As you point out, TJ's active undermining of the Adminstration in which he served and his sponsorship of anti GW newspaper articles caused GW to decide that TJ could not be trusted. If the Secretary of State position is filled by Jay or Adams, I think TJ is considered for AJ and GW looks for a Southerner as Secretary of War for balance. John Laurens (!!!!) might be a bit young but could be a good choice.

So I have to involve TJ some how in order to loan some legitimacy and to sort of nip the Anti-Federal movement? Does John Laurens at War? Become enough of a balance? Keep in mind Randolph is still the AG.

5. Henry Knox as Secretary of War was actually in charge of naval affairs in the GW Adminstration, including construction of the first six frigates. Poor Henry is often, with Jay, the overlooked Founding Brother. He was a stallwart and imaginative General, an able adminstrator, much more progressive about Indian matters than most and a likeable guy. I guess fat people just don't get any respect.

I am thinking I will Knox alone. I am planning to have some prominent Naval Actions by the end of Washington's first term that will make the Navy more important and requiring its own dept.

Please keep up your good work as our leading chronicler of how the Early Republic could have developed differently.

Your servant
AH

Thanks.
 
BUMP before I go ahead and plan the 1790s.

EDIT: this the Cabnet in my head so far

POTUS: Washington (S)
VPOTUS: John Jay (N)
Sec. State: Adams (N)
Sec Treasury: Hamilton (N)
Sec. War: John Laurens ???? (S)
AG: Edmund Randolph (S)
Minister to England: Hugh Williamson (S)
Minister to France: Thomas Jefferson (S)
Minister to Spain: Charles C Pinckney ??? (S)
Chief Justice: John Marshall (S) ??

The N & S mean North and South. I include the ministers because France and England will be important. Can anyone think of a good southerner for the War dept? maybe Henry, Arthur Lee? Since this is for my Laurens Lives TL (see link in sig) I was thinking John Laurens?
 
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