Alternate 1715-16 Jacobite Rebellion

OK the best bet for a Jacobite restoration after Anne's death was a coup in 1714. In 1715 Europe was sick of war, James III had lost his greatest supporter and the Tories that would support him were out of power. So a deathbed coup (like the OTL half-assed attempt by the Tories) would be the easiest way to do so. I actually had a discussion on this five or so years ago, so here's the link (https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/princess-over-the-water.266798/). Oh BTW, Philippe II hated the Stuarts because he wasn't given an armchair when visiting Saint-Germaine while his father was (Philippe I was a Fils de France and Philippe II was merely a Petit-Fils de France, so he wasn't actually due such an honor and made a big deal out of it when even Louis XIV wouldn't have granted him one at Versailles). Incredibly petty but realistic for the Orleans.
 
OK the best bet for a Jacobite restoration after Anne's death was a coup in 1714. In 1715 Europe was sick of war, James III had lost his greatest supporter and the Tories that would support him were out of power. So a deathbed coup (like the OTL half-assed attempt by the Tories) would be the easiest way to do so. I actually had a discussion on this five or so years ago, so here's the link (https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/princess-over-the-water.266798/). Oh BTW, Philippe II hated the Stuarts because he wasn't given an armchair when visiting Saint-Germaine while his father was (Philippe I was a Fils de France and Philippe II was merely a Petit-Fils de France, so he wasn't actually due such an honor and made a big deal out of it when even Louis XIV wouldn't have granted him one at Versailles). Incredibly petty but realistic for the Orleans.
I agree that a swift coup in 1714 after the death of Anne was the best chance and I actually happened to have read the thread a while back as I was planning on writing about the alternate reign of James III. It helped a lot. I mentioned the Philippe II armchair thing earlier in this thread. It’s insane to believe how so petty of a situation harmed the Jacobite cause. If James just let him sit history could’ve been drastically different. But even if Argyll and his army defected do you agree that the Fifteen could’ve been won? And if so would he be able to stay on the throne.
 
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Could he consider an offer of marriage between James III's future son and his granddaughter?

Well he was interested in having the Princess Anne become the wife of Louis XV, so I don't think marrying her to the future king of England/Britain is too different.

Speaking of the whole England vs Britain matter, IIRC in Aronson's Kings Over the Water, there was something about how when Bonnie Prince Charlie arrived in Edinburgh he declared the Act of Union null and void. And some Jacobites agreed since in their view, there had been no legal sitting of parliament since James II was deposed. So how would James react to the document?
 
Well he was interested in having the Princess Anne become the wife of Louis XV, so I don't think marrying her to the future king of England/Britain is too different.

Speaking of the whole England vs Britain matter, IIRC in Aronson's Kings Over the Water, there was something about how when Bonnie Prince Charlie arrived in Edinburgh he declared the Act of Union null and void. And some Jacobites agreed since in their view, there had been no legal sitting of parliament since James II was deposed. So how would James react to the document?
I think that would depend on how he gets his throne. I believe Constantine mentioned a coup likely keeps the union in tact, but war with help from Scots might see it ended
 
Yeah I know it’s really surprising. But I read that in the late 1700’s and early 1710’s that James planned on marrying Charles VI’s sister, but as I mentioned, Charles wanted to wait and see if he was restored. So we may actually see and British-Austrian alliance even with a Stuart on the throne.

I'm not sure if it was Charles VI's sister or, according to Thomas Finlayson Henderson, Charles VI's niece.
 
I'm not sure if it was Charles VI's sister or, according to Thomas Finlayson Henderson, Charles VI's niece.
In King Over the Water around 1710 James tried to marry Charles’ sister, Maria Magdalena. After James settled in Urbino there were at first hoped that he would be able to marry his daughter or sister, but as I mentioned Charles didn’t want to do anything until James was restored.
 
In King Over the Water around 1710 James tried to marry Charles’ sister, Maria Magdalena. After James settled in Urbino there were at first hoped that he would be able to marry his daughter or sister, but as I mentioned Charles didn’t want to do anything until James was restored.

A Portuguese match would be acceptable (I'm not aware that Chuckie had any other nieces) to the English (not French and she's from a traditional ally plus as her father's only daughter, she's likely to come with a stupendous dowry - a la Catherine of Bragança). But it was more likely Karl's cousin than his niece - Barbara of Portugal was only born in 1711, so a marriage would be a ways off, while her aunt (who was unfortunately uglier than the devil - which was why the bottom fell out of a Savoyard match for her) born in 1699, so would be closer to marriageable age.
 
while her aunt (who was unfortunately uglier than the devil - which was why the bottom fell out of a Savoyard match for her) born in 1699, so would be closer to marriageable age.
I didn’t know anything about her but I was curious because Wikipedia says absolutely nothing. What’s your source?
 
I didn’t know anything about her but I was curious because Wikipedia says absolutely nothing. What’s your source?

Alexanderpalacetimemachine. It's not necessarily unbiased, but I've found a lot of anecdotal stories on the site that I've incorporated into my own TL. Barbara herself was plain (as were most Bragança princesses until the 19th century, part of the reason that it was suspected Carlota Joaquina was unfaithful), since her dad, when sending her to Spain said of her "it's a pity to dispatch one so ugly for a job for which beauty would be preferred". And Fernando VII remarked to D. Carlos (V) when he saw his (Fernando's) niece-bride, "Ah, but brother, you [Carlos] married the pretty sister".

I can't remember the exact story behind the Savoyard match (it might be on her Portuguese article on wiki), but when the portrait of her arrived in Turin, it's safe to say that it caused a visible reaction. Savoy was saved face by the prince of Piedmont dying. Despite them offering a rather large dowry for Francisca, Savoy wasn't interested in transferring the betrothal to Carlo Emanuele (III), and started looking at either the duchess' half-niece, Charlotte Aglaë d'Orléans (OTL duchess of Modena) or at James (III)'s former love interest, Benedetta d'Este or one of her sisters.

On Barbara:
At the first sight of his bride-to-be, Ferdinand had made a terrible face, but soon he came to be very fond of his wife and by 1732 he depended completely upon her. Barbara’s mouth was large and her lips were thick. She had much spirit, vivacity, and understanding and expressed herself gracefully.
 
So would the main choice Be a Portuguese marriage? If an Austrian bride doesn't happen
I believe so. Let’s not forget that in OTL, in 1718 Peter the Great offered his daughter Anna Petrovna to James while he was Pretender, but it didn’t materialize due to Jacobite-Swedish relations. So we can imagine if Peter offered her to him while he was Pretender, he’d most likely offer her to him if he actually had a crown.
 
I believe so. Let’s not forget that in OTL, in 1718 Peter the Great offered his daughter Anna Petrovna to James while he was Pretender, but it didn’t materialize due to Jacobite-Swedish relations. So we can imagine if Peter offered her to him while he was Pretender, he’d most likely offer her to him if he actually had a crown.
This is very true, though the question arises of whether she's prestigious enough for the king of Britain given how Russian was viewed at this point
 
Don't forget that with the '45 a pissed off Alte Fritz offered Anna Amalie for Bonnie Prince Charlie IIRC, so one of her older sisters might be considered in a pinch for James. Probably still more likely to be for his heir though.
 
Don't forget that with the '45 a pissed off Alte Fritz offered Anna Amalie for Bonnie Prince Charlie IIRC, so one of her older sisters might be considered in a pinch for James. Probably still more likely to be for his heir though.
I've always found that hilarious that both Sweden and fritz at one point or another supported the Jacobite cause
 
Oh agree, I do wonder what might've happened had the swedes committed openly to supporting the Jacobites after James won a few victories
In the Fifteen I don’t think Charles would’ve been able to help. His army was tied up in the west trying to fend off the Russians. In 1717 however, there was a serious plot (the Gyllenbourg Plot) which came close to fruition, but was discovered by agents on the death of the Earl of Sunderland, and confirmed by the Regent. It was quickly put down and the ringleaders were arrested. But say Sunderland papers were seized quickly by Jacobites, it could’ve happened.
 
In the Fifteen I don’t think Charles would’ve been able to help. His army was tied up in the west trying to fend off the Russians. In 1717 however, there was a serious plot (the Gyllenbourg Plot) which came close to fruition, but was discovered by agents on the death of the Earl of Sunderland, and confirmed by the Regent. It was quickly put down and the ringleaders were arrested. But say Sunderland papers were seized quickly by Jacobites, it could’ve happened.
Interesting, I do think the 15 or a coup as anne as dying was their best bet or if William of
Orange had died before Mary
 
Interesting, I do think the 15 or a coup as anne as dying was their best bet or if William of
Orange had died before Mary
I agree. The Fifteen could’ve succeeded if Mar was competent, or possibly if he didn’t suppress James’ letters to Argyll. Concerning William, he offered twice to James II to make his son heir, once in 1697 if he converted to Anglicanism, and once more in 1700 even if James III remained a Catholic. At that point he didn’t care about the future of England and wanted to screw Princess Anne over. If James was made heir in 1700 I’m not sure what would happen though. Maybe I’ll make a Thread about it, or any answers in this thread would be appreciated.
 
I agree. The Fifteen could’ve succeeded if Mar was competent, or possibly if he didn’t suppress James’ letters to Argyll. Concerning William, he offered twice to James II to make his son heir, once in 1697 if he converted to Anglicanism, and once more in 1700 even if James III remained a Catholic. At that point he didn’t care about the future of England and wanted to screw Princess Anne over. If James was made heir in 1700 I’m not sure what would happen though. Maybe I’ll make a Thread about it, or any answers in this thread would be appreciated.
If it's 1697, James is going to be raised an Anglican off the bat assuming James II allows it. Same for 1700
 
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