Forward: This will cover the history of alt wars from the POD in the Russo Japanese War that turned it into the Russian War. I will not cover the social or political changes that happen. If someone else wishes to cover these topics then my all means fill free to do so. But this is a war TL thread only. The POD is based on the Dogger Bank Incident, but just worse.
AMH 2540 Military History
Professor Jim Smith
Hillsborough Community College
Fall 2014 Class 1100-1215 Time Period
The first few minutes of the class dealt with housekeeping and attended. Because of that they will not be dealt with in these transcripts.
“Class today we will be talking about the Russian War of 1904-06. The Russian War started off as a war between Japan and Russia for control over the Korean Peninsula. Japan was a late comer to the colonial game that was played during the New Imperialism age. It was eying Korea for possible annexation, but it had to deal with the Russian Bear first.
The Russians as the leader of the Triple Intervention in the aftermath of the First Sino Japanese War of 1894-95 had already cost Japan. In that war Japan had gain control of the Liaodong Peninsula and it was awarded to Japan in the treaty that ended that war. Japan’s victory sent shock waves through the world as everyone had picked the Chinese to win that war. But with the Japan winning the Liaodong Peninsula in this war caused issues with Russian Plans in the Far East.
For the Russians they were looking to gain control of Manchuria to their Empire, as well as a warm water port in the Pacific. Japanese control of the Liaodong Peninsula and more importantly Port Author was a major issue for the Russians. With the French and Germans who each had their own reasons for siding with the Russians forced the Japanese which at the time wasn’t able to take on the European powers to give up the Liaodong Peninsula for further indemnities from the Qing Empire. The Russians turned right around and ‘leased’ the Liaodong Peninsula from the Qing Empire and started to consolidate its positions in the region.
In the lead up to the start of the Russian War when it looked like it would be just Russia and Japan going at each other, the Japanese were trying to end things peacefully. They were willing to give the Russians a sphere of influence in Manchuria if the Russian would allowed them to have one in Korea. The Russians made one of many mistakes that led to their humiliating defeat in the Russian War. They refused to treat Japan as another great power and believed they could have control of both Manchuria and Korea. They didn’t believe the Japanese could defeat them. Now we will never know if the Japanese could have totally defeated the Russians by themselves because the war grew to points where they were helped by an alliance that was made up of the United States, The British and German Empires, Austria Hungary, and others. But from what was seen before the war grew it was promising for Japan and it looked like they could have won without the help, but as I said we would never know. If you wish to see what could have happen without the foreign help, you could read the 1904 Series by Henry Turtledove which is a fairly well written piece of alternate history.
The North Sea Incidents started when the Russians decided to sortie their Baltic Sea Fleet after the loss of their Pacific Fleet at the hands of the Japanese. The first incident happened when on the night of 19/20 when the Russian Fleet open fire on the American Merchantman SS Mount Vernon. The SS Mount Vernon was incorrectly classified as a Japanese battleship. At the time the British were building two battleships for the Japanese, but they weren’t to be launched for another year. The Skagerrak Incident lasted all of 20 minutes before the Russians broke off and steamed for the North Sea. Due to poor standards in Russian gunnery at time, they weren’t able to sink the Mount Vernon. But this incident left nine Americans dead and 14 more wounded. The Mount Vernon herself had to put into Oslo for repairs that took over a month to finish. If it had been just this, the war most likely wouldn’t have grown, but what happen over the two nights sealed Russia’s fate.
The Dogger Bank Incident happened the next night in the aftermath of the Skagerrak Incident. This time they spotted the passenger ship SS Majestic of the White Star Line. Once again they incorrectly classified the Majestic as a Japanese Battleship. This time the Russians shelled the Majestic for a total of 30 minutes or so before withdrawing. In their wake they left the Majestic dead in the water from having fired over a thousand rounds of ammo and even making a torpedo run on her. The Majestic would sink on her way back to dry dock in the British Isles. But the Russians killed a total 107 British citizens including the Captain[1] of the Majestic, and left even more wounded.
Outrage over the North Sea Incidents was loud. The editorial in the London Times was very damning.
“It is almost inconceivable that any men calling themselves seamen, however frightened they might be, could spend thirty minutes bombarding a passenger liner without discovering the nature of their target.”[2]
Between the two incidents so far the Russians were burning bridges right and left. American and British newspapers were calling for terms that infringed on Russian Sovereignty. They were calling for Russia to hand over the captains and admirals of the Baltic Fleet to their nations to stand trial for their actions as well as indemnities for Russians actions in the North Sea. For the British the Home Fleet was getting ready to sortie, and the US Atlantic Fleet was also getting itself ready for action. It could been possible that the Russians could have talked their way out of this, but then the third and final North Sea Incident happen and turned the world against Russia.
The final North Sea Incident didn’t happen in the North Sea but in the Strait of Dover as it enter the Channel. The Russians once again incorrectly classified another ship and open fire yet again. This time they open fire on the steamship Meteor. This time they believed they were firing on a Japanese Armed Merchant Cruiser, which the Japanese didn’t even have any of. Over a period of 25 minutes or there about they killed 6 Germans and wounded four more. But like the Mount Vernon the Meteor was able to make port for repairs.
Late on the 23rd the United States and British and German Empires acting as a united front delivered an ultimatum to the Russian Government in Moscow. In this ultimatum they demanded the Russian Fleet put into Brest, France and stay there till the end of the hostilities between herself and Japan. Next they were to hand over the whole chain of command of the Baltic Fleet to stand trial for their actions in the North Sea and Channel. Further they demanded indemnities for the families of the dead and the wounded cause by the North Sea Incidents.
The Russians weren’t about to agree these demands. They turned to their ally France for help if this came to war. But France found that it couldn’t support its ally in this cluster Russia found herself in. Popular opinion within France committed Russia for their actions in the North Sea and Channel. They offer their services to work out an agreement between the three powers the Russians had angered but they would not help Russia if this blew up in their face.
After the 72 hour period given in the ultimatum the Germans started to mobilize their nation as they worked back channels to gain the support of the Ottomans and Romanians in this coming war. This was followed hours later by the British then finally the Americans starting to mobilize their nations for war. This was follow by all three nations breaking ties with Moscow days later. Then finally on November 2 1904 the British started by joining the Japanese in their war against Russia. This was followed two days later by the Germans declaring war joined days later by Austria Hungary. Finally on the 10th of November the United States joined the war. Soon after the British entering the war, the Action of November 5 happen.”
[1] Captain Edward Smith, butterflied to where he was on his last cruise as captain of the Majestic.
[2] A modify version of the OTL of the editorial in the London Times that ran in the aftermath of the Dogger Bank Incident.
AMH 2540 Military History
Professor Jim Smith
Hillsborough Community College
Fall 2014 Class 1100-1215 Time Period
The first few minutes of the class dealt with housekeeping and attended. Because of that they will not be dealt with in these transcripts.
“Class today we will be talking about the Russian War of 1904-06. The Russian War started off as a war between Japan and Russia for control over the Korean Peninsula. Japan was a late comer to the colonial game that was played during the New Imperialism age. It was eying Korea for possible annexation, but it had to deal with the Russian Bear first.
The Russians as the leader of the Triple Intervention in the aftermath of the First Sino Japanese War of 1894-95 had already cost Japan. In that war Japan had gain control of the Liaodong Peninsula and it was awarded to Japan in the treaty that ended that war. Japan’s victory sent shock waves through the world as everyone had picked the Chinese to win that war. But with the Japan winning the Liaodong Peninsula in this war caused issues with Russian Plans in the Far East.
For the Russians they were looking to gain control of Manchuria to their Empire, as well as a warm water port in the Pacific. Japanese control of the Liaodong Peninsula and more importantly Port Author was a major issue for the Russians. With the French and Germans who each had their own reasons for siding with the Russians forced the Japanese which at the time wasn’t able to take on the European powers to give up the Liaodong Peninsula for further indemnities from the Qing Empire. The Russians turned right around and ‘leased’ the Liaodong Peninsula from the Qing Empire and started to consolidate its positions in the region.
In the lead up to the start of the Russian War when it looked like it would be just Russia and Japan going at each other, the Japanese were trying to end things peacefully. They were willing to give the Russians a sphere of influence in Manchuria if the Russian would allowed them to have one in Korea. The Russians made one of many mistakes that led to their humiliating defeat in the Russian War. They refused to treat Japan as another great power and believed they could have control of both Manchuria and Korea. They didn’t believe the Japanese could defeat them. Now we will never know if the Japanese could have totally defeated the Russians by themselves because the war grew to points where they were helped by an alliance that was made up of the United States, The British and German Empires, Austria Hungary, and others. But from what was seen before the war grew it was promising for Japan and it looked like they could have won without the help, but as I said we would never know. If you wish to see what could have happen without the foreign help, you could read the 1904 Series by Henry Turtledove which is a fairly well written piece of alternate history.
The North Sea Incidents started when the Russians decided to sortie their Baltic Sea Fleet after the loss of their Pacific Fleet at the hands of the Japanese. The first incident happened when on the night of 19/20 when the Russian Fleet open fire on the American Merchantman SS Mount Vernon. The SS Mount Vernon was incorrectly classified as a Japanese battleship. At the time the British were building two battleships for the Japanese, but they weren’t to be launched for another year. The Skagerrak Incident lasted all of 20 minutes before the Russians broke off and steamed for the North Sea. Due to poor standards in Russian gunnery at time, they weren’t able to sink the Mount Vernon. But this incident left nine Americans dead and 14 more wounded. The Mount Vernon herself had to put into Oslo for repairs that took over a month to finish. If it had been just this, the war most likely wouldn’t have grown, but what happen over the two nights sealed Russia’s fate.
The Dogger Bank Incident happened the next night in the aftermath of the Skagerrak Incident. This time they spotted the passenger ship SS Majestic of the White Star Line. Once again they incorrectly classified the Majestic as a Japanese Battleship. This time the Russians shelled the Majestic for a total of 30 minutes or so before withdrawing. In their wake they left the Majestic dead in the water from having fired over a thousand rounds of ammo and even making a torpedo run on her. The Majestic would sink on her way back to dry dock in the British Isles. But the Russians killed a total 107 British citizens including the Captain[1] of the Majestic, and left even more wounded.
Outrage over the North Sea Incidents was loud. The editorial in the London Times was very damning.
“It is almost inconceivable that any men calling themselves seamen, however frightened they might be, could spend thirty minutes bombarding a passenger liner without discovering the nature of their target.”[2]
Between the two incidents so far the Russians were burning bridges right and left. American and British newspapers were calling for terms that infringed on Russian Sovereignty. They were calling for Russia to hand over the captains and admirals of the Baltic Fleet to their nations to stand trial for their actions as well as indemnities for Russians actions in the North Sea. For the British the Home Fleet was getting ready to sortie, and the US Atlantic Fleet was also getting itself ready for action. It could been possible that the Russians could have talked their way out of this, but then the third and final North Sea Incident happen and turned the world against Russia.
The final North Sea Incident didn’t happen in the North Sea but in the Strait of Dover as it enter the Channel. The Russians once again incorrectly classified another ship and open fire yet again. This time they open fire on the steamship Meteor. This time they believed they were firing on a Japanese Armed Merchant Cruiser, which the Japanese didn’t even have any of. Over a period of 25 minutes or there about they killed 6 Germans and wounded four more. But like the Mount Vernon the Meteor was able to make port for repairs.
Late on the 23rd the United States and British and German Empires acting as a united front delivered an ultimatum to the Russian Government in Moscow. In this ultimatum they demanded the Russian Fleet put into Brest, France and stay there till the end of the hostilities between herself and Japan. Next they were to hand over the whole chain of command of the Baltic Fleet to stand trial for their actions in the North Sea and Channel. Further they demanded indemnities for the families of the dead and the wounded cause by the North Sea Incidents.
The Russians weren’t about to agree these demands. They turned to their ally France for help if this came to war. But France found that it couldn’t support its ally in this cluster Russia found herself in. Popular opinion within France committed Russia for their actions in the North Sea and Channel. They offer their services to work out an agreement between the three powers the Russians had angered but they would not help Russia if this blew up in their face.
After the 72 hour period given in the ultimatum the Germans started to mobilize their nation as they worked back channels to gain the support of the Ottomans and Romanians in this coming war. This was followed hours later by the British then finally the Americans starting to mobilize their nations for war. This was follow by all three nations breaking ties with Moscow days later. Then finally on November 2 1904 the British started by joining the Japanese in their war against Russia. This was followed two days later by the Germans declaring war joined days later by Austria Hungary. Finally on the 10th of November the United States joined the war. Soon after the British entering the war, the Action of November 5 happen.”
[1] Captain Edward Smith, butterflied to where he was on his last cruise as captain of the Majestic.
[2] A modify version of the OTL of the editorial in the London Times that ran in the aftermath of the Dogger Bank Incident.
