Alt history challenge U.S. with greater antilles

with a pod after the louisiana purchase 1803, have the islands of cuba, hispaniola, and puerto rico all U.S. states.

They must have a quality of life roughly equal to that of the rest of the U.S.

Bonus point if the U.S. has Jamaica also
 
Possibly Carlos IV or Ferdinand VII do a la the Portuguese royal family and flee Spain before Napoleon, and end up in Mexico City.

The USA and Spain are bound to end up at war at some time, and this would end up being a much larger-scale war, encompassing questions as to the Floridas, Tejas and the Caribbean.

Best Regards
Grey Wolf
 
Have Ulysses S. Grant push through legislation to purchase the Dominican Republic in 1869 as part of a more radical civil rights package. The Teller Amendment gets defeated and the US annexes Cuba(as well as Puerto Rico)from Spain at the end of the Spanish-American War. As for Haiti and Jamaica, I really can't see where either winds up with the US.
 
Have Ulysses S. Grant push through legislation to purchase the Dominican Republic in 1869 as part of a more radical civil rights package. The Teller Amendment gets defeated and the US annexes Cuba(as well as Puerto Rico)from Spain at the end of the Spanish-American War. As for Haiti and Jamaica, I really can't see where either winds up with the US.

For Haiti if it falls into anarchy the US intervenes and annexes it and for Jamaica maybe there's an Anglo-American war which the US wins.
 

General Zod

Banned
Have Ulysses S. Grant push through legislation to purchase the Dominican Republic in 1869 as part of a more radical civil rights package.

Actually a treaty to buy the Dominican Republic was signed in 1870 but the Senate failed to ratify it.
 
Maybe an U.S. that fully supported the Haitian Republic as a sister republic. Though that would require less racism in the south.

Say Haiti and the U.S. are closer, at some point france attacks haiti. The U.S. steps in to protect them.

End of war: U.S. agrees to pay Haiti's debt, Haiti joins U.S. as territory. At some point in the future Haiti Becomes a State, after becoming Americanized enough to accept of course. ;)
 
I believe the Democrats of that period would have opposed the annexation of Haiti, out of fear that the people would mostly vote Republican, like blacks in the United States.
It would be interesting, to see how Haiti would have developed, if it had been annexed by the United States.
One thing I'm sure of is, if Haiti had joined the Union, the Dominican Republic would have followed shortly after. I think the Dominicans even requested annexation once, but were turned down by the United States.
The rich Haitian and Dominican cultures would have made a considerable contribution to American literature, music, dance, art, and cuisine. Haiti's unique Voudun faith would probably have influenced American spirituality in ways we can only guess at.
The island of Hispaniola would likely be very Americanized, much more developed, with towering resort hotels and casinos rising on every shore, American military bases and communities for dependents, and retirement centers for American seniors. Meanwhile, many U.S. cities, especially in the South, would have large Haitian enclaves, just as in OTL, but much larger.
 
I believe the Democrats of that period would have opposed the annexation of Haiti, out of fear that the people would mostly vote Republican, like blacks in the United States.
It would be interesting, to see how Haiti would have developed, if it had been annexed by the United States.
One thing I'm sure of is, if Haiti had joined the Union, the Dominican Republic would have followed shortly after. I think the Dominicans even requested annexation once, but were turned down by the United States.
The rich Haitian and Dominican cultures would have made a considerable contribution to American literature, music, dance, art, and cuisine. Haiti's unique Voudun faith would probably have influenced American spirituality in ways we can only guess at.
The island of Hispaniola would likely be very Americanized, much more developed, with towering resort hotels and casinos rising on every shore, American military bases and communities for dependents, and retirement centers for American seniors. Meanwhile, many U.S. cities, especially in the South, would have large Haitian enclaves, just as in OTL, but much larger.

Voodoo religon could cause an earlier New Age movement and a larger Theoshopy movement in the US. It would also cause controversy of course. How would people react to a Voodoo congressman for instance? Some of the more violent Voodoo practices would be suppresed which might cause something like the crisis in Utah in the 19th century.
 
I agree that Haiti would probably if annexed would remain a territory for quite a while. The Civil war as we know it would be butterflied away, but if a similar war/major debate/controvercy happens maybe Haiti would become a state after that.

If Haiti is U.S. territory then i think the U.S. will also take the rest of the island very soon. Around or before control was returned to Spain from france in 1808.
 
Maybe an U.S. that fully supported the Haitian Republic as a sister republic. Though that would require less racism in the south.
The US didn't recognize the Republic of Haiti till after the end of the ACW.

1806
Spanish troops capture Lewis and Clark, They are returned to Mexico City an put on Trial. Word of the Killing of most of L&C's men leaks out.
There is a wave of Anti Spanish feeling in the Country, But Jefferson realizing the country is not ready for war, refuses to do any thing
[OTL the Spanish Troops were unable to Find L&C, and returned to Mexico City empty handed]

1808
Federalists capture Washington on a platform of "Not Again"

1809
Congress appropriates moneys to enlarge the Army and Navy.

1810
US Annexes West Florida, as a new State, at the Request of the American Settlers.
[OTL the US turned down the Request, not wanting to upset the British]
US-Spanish Relations turn even colder.

1811
The First Republic of Texas
April-August 1813
Bernardo Gutiérrez de Lara
José Álvarez de Toledo
Flag of the Republican Army of the North

In 1811, idealist Revilla native Don José Bernardo Maximiliano Gutiérrez de Lara became dedicated to the Hidalgo Independence movement. Consequently he received the rank of Lt. Colonel in Hidalgo's Army of the Americas and traveled to Washington, Baltimore and Philadelphia to enlist aid for his personal goals in the movement in Texas. In Washington and Philadelphia he met Caribbean adventurer José Alvarez de Toledo y Dubois who was a wanted man by Spanish authorities in Texas. Both on his exit and return trip through the Neutral Ground on the Texas-Louisiana border, he received sympathy and encouragement by numerous factions interested in Texas. In Natchitoches, Gutiérrez laid plans to invade Texas from the east. He enjoined another adventurer and former US Army Lieutenant Augustus William Magee to carry out the mission in the field. William Shaler, an American consul to Havana, Europe and Algiers and writer, also supported the two. It is believed that Shaler and indirectly Gutiérrez and Magee had the blessing of the American government as high as Secretary of State James Monroe, however, the official US stance after the invasion was disapproval. From their headquarters in the Neutral Ground, Gutiérrez and Magee openly advertised and assembled recruits from Louisiana with impunity for the Republican Army of the North and adopted the emerald green flag, possibly because of Bostonite Magee’s Irish background. Volunteers were offered forty dollars a month and a league of to-be-captured land. From San Antonio, Texas governor Salcedo followed the developments through his intelligence network and intensively tried to enlist more aid from his superiors and comrades in arms south of the Rio Grande to prepare for invasion and limit distribution of rebel propaganda. Governor Manuel Salcedo was continuously treated arrogantly by his distal and protocol-oriented bureaucratic uncle and Commandant Nemesio Salcedo. Either the latter did not clearly understand the mounting difficulties on the Texas border, or found them of low strategic priority. Nacogdoches commander Captain Montero, supported by subdeacon Juan Zambrano of Bexar, maintained their forces on high alert appealing to Gov. Salcedo for reinforcements. On 12 Aug 1812, the Republican Army of the North of about 150 men crossed the Sabine River and took Nacogdoches without resistance. Royalist Capt. Montero was unable to recruit a single civilian minuteman for the cause and as he retreated toward San Antonio, numerous members of his army and residents of East Texas joined the invaders. By late fall the Republican Army of the North controlled the area between the Sabine and Guadalupe Rivers. Lt. Col. Gutiérrez announced his intentions and appealed for popular support in the capital San Antonio:

"Soldiers and citizens of San Antonio de Bexar: It is more than a year since I left my country, during which time I have labored indefatigably for our good. I have overcome many difficulties, have made friends and have obtained means to aid us in throwing off the insulting yoke of the insolent despotism. Rise en masse, soldiers and citizens; unite in the holy cause of our country! I am now marching to your succor with a respectable force of American volunteers who have left their homes and families to take up our cause, to fight for our liberty. They are the free descendents of the men who fought for the independence of the United States; and as brothers and inhabitants of the same continent they have drawn their swords with a hearty good will in the defense of the cause of humanity; and in order to drive the tyrannous Europeans beyond the Atlantic."
Spanish Forces from Mexico City Lay Siege to the Filibusters.

1812
Tennessee and Kentucky Militia under the Command of General Andrew Jackson. Arrive at San Antonio, intending to Break the Siege.
Spain [King Carlos] declares war on the US.

The expanded 'Army of the United States, backed by the Georgia, Alabama, and Carolina Militias Take East Florida.

1813
US invades Cuba.
US invades Porto Rico.
US invades Hispaniola

1814
Congress of Vienna confirms US procession of Greater Antilles, Florida & Texas.

1816
Democrats capture Washington.

1817
While the Democrats manage to downsize the Army, The Navy manages to make a case of Need, involving the protection of the new oversea processions.

1861
Cuba, Santo Domingo, and PR Join the CSA

1862
CS troops Invade Haiti and declare it a CS Territory.

1863
US invades Cuba

1865
CSA Surrenders, Union Troops occupy Hispaniola, Including the Haitian Territory.

1876
Reconstruction ends, Military Government ends - everywhere except Haiti.

1882
Haiti declared a US Territory.

1911
Haiti becomes a State.
 
How about instead of otl war of 1812 a war with spain in the same time period, how would the U.S. have faired in such a war
 
How about instead of otl war of 1812 a war with spain in the same time period, how would the U.S. have faired in such a war

Probably a slight victory for the US. The US doesn't have an overwhelming advantage like in 1898. Also I don't see Cuba falling to the US since there isn't much manpower to garrison Cuba.
 
Rough time line

1803 louisana purchase

1805 Hait declares independence

U.S. is among the first nations to reconize it as a nation( the pod being the U.S. is more driven to the spread of democracy in the Western Hemisphere)

1807 France trys to reconquer Haiti, The U.S. send some men and lots of supplies and money. The U.S. and Haiti are drawn closer together. U.S.-French relations sour.

Haiti drives back the french due to poor french logistics and thousands dying due to yellow fever. The U.S. celebrate this as a great victory for democracy. Andrew Jackson is made a Hero of in this war. The U.S. also seize Guadaloupe and Martinique

1812 The U.S. and British are on good terms and both are against France
1812

1820's many New democracys made in Spain's former colonies including the Republic of East Hispanolia. Monroe Doctrine is stated.

1826 War almost erupts between East Hispanolia and Hait over slavery. The U.S. disaproves stating that it is within each countries right to allow or disallow slavery and should not try to force its neighbor to change.

Comment, suggestions, feed back
 
Rough time line

1803 louisana purchase

1805 Hait declares independence

U.S. is among the first nations to reconize it as a nation( the pod being the U.S. is more driven to the spread of democracy in the Western Hemisphere)

1807 France trys to reconquer Haiti, The U.S. send some men and lots of supplies and money. The U.S. and Haiti are drawn closer together. U.S.-French relations sour.

Haiti drives back the french due to poor french logistics and thousands dying due to yellow fever. The U.S. celebrate this as a great victory for democracy. Andrew Jackson is made a Hero of in this war. The U.S. also seize Guadaloupe and Martinique

1812 The U.S. and British are on good terms and both are against France
1812

1820's many New democracys made in Spain's former colonies including the Republic of East Hispanolia. Monroe Doctrine is stated.

1826 War almost erupts between East Hispanolia and Hait over slavery. The U.S. disaproves stating that it is within each countries right to allow or disallow slavery and should not try to force its neighbor to change.

Comment, suggestions, feed back

I doubt a Southerner like Andrew Jackson would support a slave revolt..
 
I was thinking them supporting Haiti on the grounds of it being a republic, rather than having a foreign colonial power there.

The slave revolt is a very valid point I think maybe a POD of earlier abolition maybe necessary for that scenario to make sense.
 
When the US wanted to annex Samana Peninsula in the Dominican Republic , the French, British and the Spanish made it clear to the Dominicans that they had no intention of allowing the US to gain a foothold in the Caribbean. So the US would have had this same problem if they ventured to any other island in the Caribbean.

US could have had Yucatan but turned them down. The Creoles were only in control of a few towns since the Mayans had fought back. They were willing to the US or any European nation that helped them fight the Mayans.

Found this out about Haiti. I thought after Independence in 1804 that they were one nation. They were but for only two years. It was called the Empire of Haiti.

In 1806 they split into two parts. The Northern Part was called the State of Haiti which later in 1811 became the Kingdom of Haiti. The President became King. Under the Kingdom they built palaces and a Citadel for defense. The Citadel could hold 355 Cannons. The Kingdom lasted until 1820. It then reunited with the Republic of Haiti.

The Southern part became the Republic of Haiti. They provided supplies to Bolivar in his plan to invade Venezuela. This republic lasted until 1859 when they again became an Empire.

It seems the Northern Part they talk about could have been the extreme North. While the Southern part would have been the center and extreme southern parts.

Its hard to find a map.

The US would have had trouble there. And they did help the US during the war for Independence.

As for Puerto Rico they had defeated a major British invasion to the island in 1797. And it was the people living there that were not European Spaniards that were the main cause for winning that battle.

US would have stuck to expanding West on the continent. Venturing into the Caribbean would mean they would have to fight the europeans or new Independent nations. US was not ready to venture into the Caribbean. Closest the US got to the Caribbean Sea and the Greater Antilles was via owning the Florida Keys in 1821 with the purchase of Florida.

Years before
Ironically, the British gave the islands back to Spain in 1783, to keep them out of the hands of the United States
Spain had given the islands to the British when they gave Florida to them. Spain never considered the Keys part of Florida when they had to turnover Florida to the British in 1763.

If should be noted that Key West was settled by US Citizens after 1821. It was strategically located. US started constructing a Fort there in 1845.
In 1846 the US also started constructing a Fort on the Dry Tortugas which was 68 miles (109 km)West of Key West.

LocMap_Dry_Tortugas_National_Park.png



Dry-Tortugas-map.gif


Fort Built at Dry Tortugas:
Dry-Tortugas.jpg


Whats left of the Fort built at Key West:
Large photo: http://image24.webshots.com/25/7/80/62/36778062OeXmuP_fs.jpg
 
A later POD...

The Virginius affair leads to war between the U.S. and Spain following an (alternate history) escalation of tensions between October and December 1873.
 
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