Alsace-Lorraine stays independent after WWI

Basically two issues:
1) How do we manage that Alsace-Lorraine stays independent following WWI (in OTL, it was independent only for a few days)? Is there any chance for that?
2) What would be the consequences for WWII?
 

Rockingham

Banned
Basically two issues:
1) How do we manage that Alsace-Lorraine stays independent following WWI (in OTL, it was independent only for a few days)? Is there any chance for that?
2) What would be the consequences for WWII?
No, frankly no. Not without a POD before 1900.
 
A sane French government would not advocate Alsace's independence. That would be insane, and unelectability would follow.
 
The only thing I can think of is having Alsace and the Mossel dept. annexed to the German Confederation in the Congress of Vienna...

As for a post-1900 PoD... it would be ASB...
 
Could be with a general revolutionary situation in Europe following or at the end of the WWI we could have some probability of getting an Alsace-Lorraine independent.

As say in the web http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Rotunda/2209/Alsace_Lorraine.html

when the frech troops occupied Alsace-Lorraine in november 21 of 1918, the two existing independentists governments in Alsace-Lorraine dissolved, but there was an exiled government of Alsace-Lorraine in Baden.

"All that remained of the republican movement was an Executive Committee
of the Rebublic Elsass-Lothringen (Exekutiv-Komitee der Republik Elsass-Lothringen) in exile in Baden."

So if revolutionary situation is far better than in OTL, so some kind of red-wank post WWI, it is possible an Alsace-Lorraine independent.
 

Rockingham

Banned
It would be very sane and foresightful to create a neutral buffer state between France and Germany. Besides, anyone who was in power in 1918 was unelectable no matter what he did.
Put it this way, you would probably see a communist revolution in France if this were to happen....:rolleyes:
 
No, frankly no. Not without a POD before 1900.

I agree. Alsace-Lorraine clamies to be the birth place of Joan of Arc. Granted she wasn't raised to sainthood until after the war, but the fact that she's also a French national heroine means there's no way in hell that France will give up Alsace-Lorraine.
 

Typo

Banned
Considering the fact France largely fought the Great War over Alsace-Lorraine, it's ASBish.
 
Better news for Poland ?

After the Anschluss of Austria and the annexation of Sudetenland Germany would probably have tried to annex Elsass-Lothringen to 'liberate' ethnic Germans instead of opting to invade Poland.

Two scenarios are then possible :

1) WW II starts a few months earlier in history, all countries get involved and the outcome is more or less familiar to the real outcome

2) Although the army of Elsass-Lothringen is virtually non-existent, France replies with a declaration of war and a couple of weeks later German troops march into Paris. This time, the Soviet army isn't involved and Soviet generals persuade Stalin to stay out of this war, impressed by the Blitzkrieg. This has many other possibilities :

2.A) Germany occupies most of Western Europe, except for the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland, the USA gets involved and Germany is beaten. However, Central & Eastern Europe never gets drawn into this battlefield and although they will come under the influence of the Soviet Union they remain a lot more independant (Yugoslavia-like). This means :
- Eastern Europe's economies are less communist, Germany & Berlin never get divided and the continued presence of Jewish communities ensures a greater prosperity for Europe and more economic pressures for the Soviet Union (possibly a collapse of the Soviet Union in the 50's or 60s instead of the 90s)
- because the Holocaust will only effect jews in Germany and Western continental Europe no state of Israel will be needed with no PLO or Hamas and possibly less islamic extremism (no Osama bin Laden or 9/11 ?)...

2.B) Germany soon occupies Western Europe and before the USA realises what's going on Germany invades the United Kingdom, thus taking control over all the British colonies. This could result in other possibilities :
- a continued presence of nazism with Adolf Hitler living to his eighties or nineties with a Cold War between the German Empire and the Soviet Union with the USA as a distant observer which switches allegiances between Germany and Russia to maintain the balance of power
- a widespread ethnic cleansing and a much more brutal colonisation of all the British colonies, no one would ever hear of Mahatma Gandhi as he would be one of the first to end up in the gas chambers...

2.C) Germany takes over Western Europe (including the United Kingdom). All Central & Eastern European countries quickly align WILLINGLY with the Soviet Union to protect themselves. The USA becomes an ally of the Soviet Union and WW II becomes an even bloodier mess to defeat a stronger Germany than in the original WW II. Atomic bombs get dropped at Berlin and Munich...

You see how such a 'small' country like Elsass-Lothringen could make an enormous difference ? Furthermore, there are probably several other scenarios we could think of for Europe alone (but notice that in most scenarios most of Europe's jews would have been a lot better off !). Also notice I didn't include Asia in all this. What if there never was an alliance between Japan & Germany ? What if Germany took over Nederlands Indië (Indonesia) and came into conflict with Japan ? What if .... ?
 

Valamyr

Banned
It would be interesting to see its fate tied to that of the Sarre and have it's ownership put to referendum in 1934..

The french could agree to this thinking that the demographics of Alsace Lorraine would let them win the Sarre 15 years down the line, and keep it for good. If, OTOH, the Germans ended up winning the referendum and "legally" getting back both the Sarre and Alsace-Lorraine, it could make for some very interesting twists.
 
For this we need a tie after WWI. So Britain and America remain neutral and Russia puts up a better fight than OTL. Its 1920, all nations have exhausted an entire generation and so Britain agrees to broker a peace. Neither France nor Germany will accept either of the other gaining AL so Inderpendance is given as a general compromise. Neither side is happy but can't do anything about it.
 
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