Allies Lose Patience with De Gaulle in 1943

"The only hope is to produce a new and inspirational leader - and I do not mean one that is 6 ft. 5 and who considers himself to be, by some miraculous biological and transmigrative process, the offspring of Clemenceau and Jeanne d'Arc." Eisenhower
 
(I admit I've no idea if the Communist Resistance were any better in that respect, and as a Brit I can't get on the moral high horse there anyway.)

Communist resistance was the most scummy, since they switched their ideology from "imperialist war" to "SECOND FRONT NOW!!!!!" on June 22, 1941.
 
"The only hope is to produce a new and inspirational leader - and I do not mean one that is 6 ft. 5 and who considers himself to be, by some miraculous biological and transmigrative process, the offspring of Clemenceau and Jeanne d'Arc." Eisenhower

The thing, is that he "was" . De Gaulle was maybe acting like a dick but he was what France (and the allies despite what some claim) need at this moment. Someone who show that the French are not vassal to anyone and are still a great power (It wasn't true until the end of 1944) .

The Anglo Saxon hate him but when they search for a fighting french they find him . When they searched for someone to prevent the Communist to take over France he was here . He was at the end a right wing politician who want to do things his way but he was needed as a rallying figure for the French and by the Anglo American as someone who can unite everyone . And he was the only one capable to do it in 1943 .
 

Tovarich

Banned
Communist resistance was the most scummy, since they switched their ideology from "imperialist war" to "SECOND FRONT NOW!!!!!" on June 22, 1941.

Yeah, my paternal Grandmother did the same, got her released from Holloway at least.

I do think individual acts of bravery by members of the Communist Resistance over the next four years should be acknowledged alongside those of the DeGaullists, though.
 
The thing, is that he "was" . De Gaulle was maybe acting like a dick but he was what France (and the allies despite what some claim) need at this moment. Someone who show that the French are not vassal to anyone and are still a great power (It wasn't true until the end of 1944) .

The Anglo Saxon hate him but when they search for a fighting french they find him . When they searched for someone to prevent the Communist to take over France he was here . He was at the end a right wing politician who want to do things his way but he was needed as a rallying figure for the French and by the Anglo American as someone who can unite everyone . And he was the only one capable to do it in 1943 .

Pretty well sums it up. As I said in an earlier thread on the subject of CDG, didn't particularly like him, even a little, but he was good for France, and in the long run, good for the free world.
 
The thing, is that he "was" . De Gaulle was maybe acting like a dick but he was what France (and the allies despite what some claim) need at this moment. Someone who show that the French are not vassal to anyone and are still a great power (It wasn't true until the end of 1944) .

The Anglo Saxon hate him but when they search for a fighting french they find him . When they searched for someone to prevent the Communist to take over France he was here . He was at the end a right wing politician who want to do things his way but he was needed as a rallying figure for the French and by the Anglo American as someone who can unite everyone . And he was the only one capable to do it in 1943 .
I think you give him too much credit. He had little to do with French colonies coming over to the Allied side. The Allies would have recruited and equipped the Free French troops and without De Gaulle you eliminate all of his meddling in purely military decisions such as the reorganization in Alsace. I put him in the same category as the Olympics; the world would have been better without them.
 
I think you give him too much credit. He had little to do with French colonies coming over to the Allied side. The Allies would have recruited and equipped the Free French troops and without De Gaulle you eliminate all of his meddling in purely military decisions such as the reorganization in Alsace. I put him in the same category as the Olympics; the world would have been better without them.

Without him, there wouldn't have been Free French . The French colonies wouldn't have join Free French until Torch . And maybe that Torch would have been different and the French Resistance would have been different without a central organization . Thus it would have caused problems for the Debarquement . And the Free French army wouldn't have been here to help the British in Africa (Bir Hakeim for example) and in Italy .
 

Archibald

Banned
"The only hope is to produce a new and inspirational leader - and I do not mean one that is 6 ft. 5 and who considers himself to be, by some miraculous biological and transmigrative process, the offspring of Clemenceau and Jeanne d'Arc." Eisenhower

so what was Ike alternative then ? "a new and inspirational leader" fine, but Giraud wasn't. at all. there wasn't that much alternative considering that most prominent political leaders of the 3rd Republic were carefully jailed by Nazi Germany right from July 1940. Daladier, Reynaud, Mandel - gone.
 
so what was Ike alternative then ? "a new and inspirational leader" fine, but Giraud wasn't. at all. there wasn't that much alternative considering that most prominent political leaders of the 3rd Republic were carefully jailed by Nazi Germany right from July 1940. Daladier, Reynaud, Mandel - gone.

I believe that at first it was Darlan (which is probably the worse choice ), then Giraud . Otherwise the new and inspirational leader is and will always be De Gaulle for the French in WW2 . Or they could reach Saint-ex :p
 
I believe that at first it was Darlan (which is probably the worse choice ), then Giraud . Otherwise the new and inspirational leader is and will always be De Gaulle for the French in WW2 . Or they could reach Saint-ex :p

Just to be clear when you say Saint-ex you're referring to Antoine de Saint-Exupery? Saint-Exupery was famous but that alone wouldn't have been sufficient. Did he ever evince or state any interest or ability in a major leadership role? Do you think he would have been a capable leader for the Free French?
 
I think you give him too much credit. He had little to do with French colonies coming over to the Allied side. The Allies would have recruited and equipped the Free French troops and without De Gaulle you eliminate all of his meddling in purely military decisions such as the reorganization in Alsace. I put him in the same category as the Olympics; the world would have been better without them.

Without him, there wouldn't have been Free French . The French colonies wouldn't have join Free French until Torch . And maybe that Torch would have been different and the French Resistance would have been different without a central organization . Thus it would have caused problems for the Debarquement . And the Free French army wouldn't have been here to help the British in Africa (Bir Hakeim for example) and in Italy .
While @jolou mildly overstates De Gaulle's role IMO, he's clearly far more correct than you, @Bob in Pittsburgh , I'm afraid.

NOBODY in the WAllies liked working with De Gaulle - but Churchill (who would dearly have loved any reasonable alternative) supported him strongly because he was indispensable at the time. The US had wacky visions of being able to work with Vichy France, and never really seemed to realize that wasn't going to work.
 
Just to be clear when you say Saint-ex you're referring to Antoine de Saint-Exupery? Saint-Exupery was famous but that alone wouldn't have been sufficient. Did he ever evince or state any interest or ability in a major leadership role? Do you think he would have been a capable leader for the Free French?

Yeah i speak about him . And i vaguely remember something about the Americans trying to encourage him (Or trying to put him) at the head of the Free French . not really sure about it and I was mainly joking :p

Saint-ex really like to fly and i don't think he would have accepted a post or worse the Leadership ^^
 

Archibald

Banned
I think Jolou was joking (ninja'd by Jolou himself !).

Saint Exupéry was a dreamer, then an aviator, but he had some kind of deep hatred of bureaucracy, politics and industrialisation.
 
My reading suggests that post war revisionism has greatly increased the apparent influence and effectiveness of the pro-Gaulist FFI at the expense of the mainly communist-supported FTP. My father who was involved in managing radio traffic with the MI9 and SOE networks in 1943/4 said that very few operatives trusted the FFR and he knew several agents who were betrayed.
 
Top