Allies invade Europe in 1943-Through Spain

wormyguy

Banned
Okay...

Right off the bat, Portugal is allied to Spain (Iberian Pact). So, Portugal is forced into the war.
Portugal was allied to the UK too (in the oldest standing alliance in the world, no less), and didn't enter the war. I doubt they would enter the war so that the allies could occupy them and all their colonies, conveniently placed next to British ones.
 
Portugal was allied to the UK too (in the oldest standing alliance in the world, no less), and didn't enter the war. I doubt they would enter the war so that the allies could occupy them and all their colonies, conveniently placed next to British ones.

I recall Portugal was allied in WW1. I think with a Spanish-UK war Portugal is going to get sucked into it one way or another. That said, they're going to have to take a side and neither one looks very good. I'm not sure how it would play out...

I recall that there was an Iberian pact with Franco; that Salazar sent troops to support the Nationalists, and there was a good relationship between Madrid and Lisboa. But I'd think that a lot of this situation is going to be who DoWs whom and why. If the UK attacks Spain for a lame/no reason, I can't see Portugal supporting them; if Spain attacks the UK with something like Operation Felix, I'd see Portugal moving towards the UK--perhaps the UK could base out of Lisbon.

Interesting situation all around.
 
The allies could have invaded Spain but then the Germans would have poured in. Would think it would be better to keep the Germans has far away from the entrance to the Mediterranean.

And those Spaniards that went to fight for the Germans were mostly Falange. It seems Franco could have been ok with that for two reasons. Franco was not dumb and was playing both sides even though he did favor the Axis at first. So having Spaniards volunteer to help the Germans was good when it came to relations with the Axis.
Second he could get rid of those Falange members. He used them but did not really like them.


I think the Spanish Civil War which left Spain heavily damaged was mainly caused by foreign involvement. Italy helped Franco after signing a secret treaty with Franco to use Spanish bases if Italy should be in a war with France. They sent many men and planes. The Germans also sent troops and planes. The Russians sent weapons but they ended up with 500 million in Gold from Spain. Russians would not take credit. Then other nations sent volunteers to help the Republicans.

Chances are if no outsider had gotten involved that the Spanish Civil War might have been much less destructive.
 
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I suspect that Franco's aid to the Nazi invasion of Russia could have been used as a basis for a threat and maybe a declaration of war.

Let us also be very clear- Hitler had any number of legitimate grounds for declaring war on the US for its support for Britain from late summer 1940. He took the view that it was not in his interests. If the Roosevelt had asked for an unltimatum and declaration of war against Spain he would likely have got it.

By the way how does Gibralta look in this scenario?
 
20081016010838%21Second_world_war_europe_1941_map_de.png


The above map shows Europe in 1941. Seems the Mediterranean is almost under Axis control. Spain and Turkey are the major neutral nations on each side of the Meditteranean. Map does not show Libya which was under Italian occupation. Egypt was UK. but Germans at one point did get within 60 miles of Alexandria in Egypt which was near the canal.

Back to Spain. Looking at that map you can see Spain provided a large neutral gap or corridor in between the Axis nations. The allies benefitted more from a Neutral Spain then having them in the war. Also, the allies benefited from Spains neutrality when it came to getting intelligence. Spain was full of Spys from both sides.

Again, back to question because of that I do not think they would have gotten Spain involved. Could you imagine if the allies had not maintained control over the Mediterranean. The war could have turned out different. Especially, if the Germans had first secured the mediterranian before attacking the Soviets. Found out the German Navy also wanted more time to build up there navy before the start of the war. What if they had built up there navy before the war started.

Edit: The Spaniards sent troops to the City of Tangiers during the War.
When the rest of Morocco became a French protectorate in 1912, Tangier was granted special status; in 1923 it officially became an international city, governed by an international commission. It remained an international zone until 1956, when it was integrated with the independent kingdom of Morocco.
They say during the war if was full of spies from all sides. UK. found out about the german plan to dump fake UK. currency from there bank in Tangiers.
 
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Kesslering goes to Spain and turns it into another Italy. The geography is similar, several large mountain chains that run perpendicular to the routes the Allies would advance on. By the time the Allies get to the Pyrrennes, their drive is stalled at Spain's version of the Gothic line.
 
this may be a bit too costly of a move, but I wonder, if the allies had enough cause to, do you think they might have invaded spain in late '43 as a means of pulling German troops out of France in preparation for a cross channel invasion in 44? If this made getting to Berlin easier then perhaps the allies could take out the Nazi's and then sit down to talks with Franco and his pals in the end.
 
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