Allies hold the island of Crete

What does a defeat of the German airborne troops do for the British and American development of Airborne forces?
 
What does a defeat of the German airborne troops do for the British and American development of Airborne forces?
They become considered useful for small actions and raids but their vulnerability against fully equipped troops means no large formations above brigade size are formed. Strangely enough this improves the quality of the regular line units because the best troops are not syphoned off to the airborne units.
 
- The sun was slowly setting on Empires, but not everyone in London cared. How "Greek" did Cretans feel in 1941? Would the Greek government in exile be invited to Crete? Or, would they remain elsewhere due to uhmmm..... "logistical problems"? Would the Cretans be presented with say a "guided referendum" regarding affiliation with the Empire? Would it need to be that guided?

You mean besides their revolts in 1770, 1821, 1841, 1858, 1866, 1878, 1889 and 1896 to become a part of Greece? Good luck with that kind of imperial ambitions... and if EOKA required 20-40,000 troops to keep in check in a basically completely peaceful island like Cyprus I wouldn't want to calculate what would be going on in Crete with its fine traditions of arms in every house, armed insurrection and blood feuding. Oh by the way the Greek government had evacuated to Crete in the first place.

But at least one British agent did have that kind of idea during the war. The Cretan resistance packed him up and send him back to Egypt accusing him of being a German double agent who was trying to undermine the allied cause...
 
I found this looking for something else.

It's from Page 128 of Volume 2 of the Middle East and Mediterranean on the Hyperwar website.

This was the chance that General Student, commander of Fliegerkorps XI, had been waiting for. 'Island-hopping' was essentially a task for airborne forces, and he saw Crete as the first of a series of steppingstones leading to the Suez Canal, of which Cyprus would be the second. But Hitler never sanctioned this extension of the operation; he went no further than to say that Crete was to be taken quickly and the airborne troops released for further tasks. It is easy to see that even the capture of Crete would bring great strategic advantages. The British Fleet would be practically excluded from the Aegean; the sea route from the Danube through the Dardanelles and the Corinth Canal, so essential to Italy—especially for her oil—would be more secure; and a convenient base would be obtained on the flank of the North African theatre and of the sea route between Alexandria and Malta.
And this one from Page 138.
Admiral Cunningham decided to sweep by night the approaches to Crete from the Aegean and from the west, and to withdraw his ships to the south of Crete by day unless enemy forces were known to be at sea. Three groups of cruisers and destroyers were to be used for this, and to support them, and also to counter any Italian activity, part of the battlefleet was to cruise to the west of Crete. The remainder of the battlefleet and the Formidable would be in reserve at Alexandria. Motor torpedo boats based on Suda Bay were to help with the nightly patrols, and a minefield was to be laid in the hope of interrupting communications through the Corinth Canal, which it did.
The Mediterranean Fleet will be able to lay more minefields in the hope of interrupting communications through the Corinth Canal if Crete is held.
 
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Probably best to start with mining (which is low risk) and then take out the canal itself when the forces have built up a bit then I guess. 48 isn't really enough that you can risk them on something that isn't a sure thing especially as by this point the waste of time over Germany is gathering pace and all the potential replacement Bombers will be committed there. Actually using them for tactical strikes and waiting to hit Germany when the force was built up (and the aids needed for semi accurate bombing were in place) would be common sense but...RAF and strategic bombing...What can you do?
That's a fallacy. All the potential replacement bombers weren't being concentrated in Bomber Command. The fact is that it's expansion was retarded by the transfer of its squadrons to other RAF commands at home and overseas from 1936 until well into 1943.

Also bombing the Corinth Canal is probably less dangerous than bombing the Rhur because it's defences are weaker. AFAIK neither the Germans or the Italians had any night fighters in Greece in 1941 or the ground organisation that was necessary to make them effective.

The first Wellingtons in the Middle East and Mediterranean belonged to No. 1 General Reconnaissance Unit. I don't know when they arrived, but they were there on 10th June 1940.

The first Wellington bombers arrived in the Middle East and Mediterranean in June 1940 when detachments of Bomber Command squadrons were sent to Malta to attack targets in North Africa. According to the RAF Webb website three of these detachments (from Nos. 38, 99 & 115 Squadrons) were amalgamated into a new No. 148 Squadron on 14 December 1940 at Luqa. However, Lake in Flying Units of the RAF says that the Wellington Flight, Malta was formed by merging elements of 49 and 75 Squadrons (at Mildenhall) and 38 & 115 Squadrons (Marham) operating from Luqa, Malta, from 9th November 1940 and that the flight was disbanded on 1st December 1940 to become 148 Squadron. Meanwhile, No. 70 (Bomber Transport) Squadron (which was in Egypt on 10th June 1940 and equipped with Valentias) began converting to Wellingtons in September 1940; the last Valentia had gone by the following month and the squadron was now a pure bomber unit. (Source RAF Web.) Nos. 37 and 38 (Bomber) Squadrons were transferred from Bomber Command to Egypt in November 1940.

Thus there were 4 Wellington bomber squadrons in the Middle East and Mediterranean in mid-December 1940 plus the DWI Wellingtons in No. 1 General Reconnaissance Unit. No. 148 (Bomber) Squadron was at Malta and Nos. 37, 38 & 70 (Bomber) Squadrons were in Egypt. All of the squadrons had an Initial Equipment (I.E.) of 16 Wellingtons and an Immediate Reserve (I.R.) of 8 Wellingtons. A fifth Wellington Squadron formed on 1st August 1941. This was No. 108 (Bomber) Squadron , which according to the RAF Webb website began operations the following month, its main targets being Libya and Greece. Conversion to Liberations began in November 1940, but this was not completed and it had returned to being an all-Wellington unit by June 1942.

The 5 Wellington squadrons that were permanently based in the Middle East and Mediterranean were reinforced by detachments from Bomber Command squadrons. For example Nos. 40 and 104 (Bomber) Squadrons were at Luqa, Malta on detachment in December 1941. Nos. 37, 38, 70, 108 and 104 squadrons were all in Egypt at that time. Wellingtons also equipped the Sea Rescue Flight in the Western Desert, No 1 General Reconnaissance Unit in Egypt and were on the strength of No. 70 Operational Conversion Unit in Egypt.

The Wellington squadrons in Egypt came under the command of under No. 257 (Bomber) Wing when it was formed on Egypt on 20th November 1940. The wing became No. 205 (Bomber) Group on 23rd October 1941.

Furthermore, the RAF did bomb the Corinth Canal in 1941 IOTL. See this quote from Pages 296 and 297 of the Middle East and Mediterranean Volume 2 from the Hyperwar website.


During this period the usual bombing target for the Wellingtons at Malta was the port of Tripoli, which was attacked 72 times, involving a total of 357 effective sorties.2 This may be pictured as roughly equivalent to six aircraft arriving over Tripoli every other night. Marylands and Blenheims joined in by making attacks during the day time. The principal targets, apart from shipping, were the harbour installations, marshalling yards and military depots. It is difficult to assess the extent of interruption caused by these attacks, but it would probably have been much greater had it been possible to use heavier bombs—of 1,000 lb. and over—which Air Vice-Marshal H.P. Lloyd (who had succeeded Air Vice-Marshal Maynard as Air Officer Commanding Malta on 1st June 1941) was anxious to use, but which had not yet arrived in the Middle East.

In addition to this concentration on Tripoli and the attacks described in the previous chapter on ships at sea, aircraft from Malta continued to bomb embarkation ports and harass airfields in Sicily and Southern Italy. Altogether, 170 sorties were flown on these operations.

Meanwhile, Wellingtons of Nos. 37, 38, 70 and 148 Squadrons from Egypt were making Benghazi their principal target in the offensive against the enemy's supply system. The 'mail run', as the aircrews called it, was made nearly every night by one or other of these Wellington squadrons, which altogether made 102 attacks, involving 578 effective sorties. This represented on the average five or six aircraft every night for six nights in the week. The necessary reconnaissance was provided from time to time by Marylands of Nos. 12 and 24 Squadrons S.A.A.F., and No. 39 Squadron R.A.F. During August the scale was increased by a few night attacks made by South African Blenheims and Marylands. By the middle of October it was felt that a 297 still greater effort was necessary, and South African Marylands began to make attacks by day.

Mention should here be made of two heavy attacks in August and one in September by Wellingtons from Egypt on the Corinth Canal, with the object of forcing the Axis ships to abandon the short-cut through the canal and come out into waters where they could be attacked by British submarines. There was some reason to believe that this aim had been achieved, although it now seems that the canal was not in fact blocked.
Possessing Crete will make it easier to attack the Corinth Canal by air because it's 1,015 km from Alexandria to Corinth, but only 370 km from Crete to Corinth.
 
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Probably best to start with mining (which is low risk) and then take out the canal itself when the forces have built up a bit then I guess. 48 isn't really enough that you can risk them on something that isn't a sure thing especially as by this point the waste of time over Germany is gathering pace and all the potential replacement Bombers will be committed there. Actually using them for tactical strikes and waiting to hit Germany when the force was built up (and the aids needed for semi accurate bombing were in place) would be common sense but...RAF and strategic bombing...What can you do?
I was wrong. It was 64 Wellingtons in 4 squadrons from the end of 1940 to August 1941 and 80 Wellingtons in 5 squadrons for the remainder of the year plus detachments from Bomber Command squadrons.

Note that the 64 aircraft from December 1940 to August 1941 and the 80 aircraft for the rest of the year are first-line strengths. They don't include the reserve aircraft that enabled the squadrons to operate at their first-line strengths.

This quote from Pages 106 and 107 of the Middle East and Mediterranean Volume 1 on Hyperwar explains the terms Initial Equipment and Initial Reserve much better than I can.


Squadrons were armed with fighter, bomber, reconnaissance, or transport types of aircraft and, broadly speaking, their functions came within these main classifications. But as the war progressed they were to be given many different roles, which necessitated modifications to aircraft, armament, and equipment, and special training for aircrews.

Squadrons were sub-divided into two, or in certain cases three, flying FLIGHTS and a headquarters flight. The headquarters flight was composed of engine and aircraft repair sections, and signals, armament, photographic, transport and administrative sections. But when two or three fighter or bomber squadrons were controlled by a Station or Wing Headquarters the sections of the head-quarters flight would be established as part of the formation headquarters, in order to economize manpower and material. This was generally satisfactory for squadrons based in the United Kingdom, but was not flexible enough for moving warfare, as in the Western Desert.

The first line strength of a squadron consisted of a number of initial equipment (I.E.) aircraft. An immediate reserve (I.R.) of up to 50 per cent of the I.E. was usually—but not always—held by each squadron. Further reserves were kept at air stores parks and maintenance units. The following are examples of the established strengths of squadrons in the Middle East soon after the fall of France :-

Role of Squadron
Type of
aircraft
I.E.
I.R.
Approximate strength,
Officers and Airmen
FighterGladiator or
Hurricane
16​
8​
250​
BomberBlenheim
16​
8​
400​
"Wellington
16​
8​
490​
General Reconnaissance, Flying-BoatSunderland
6​
2​
250​
Army Co-operationLysander
12​
6​
290​
 

Errolwi

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Yeah, tbh I don't know too much about the battle of Crete, I really wanna get a book about it but school and money. I was thinking that the extra division would be nice for the battle and also provide a solid backbone that the Greek army could build from.

The NZ Official Histories are online. From a NZ perspective of course, and pre-Ultra (and various details about Imperial politics being available) but free!
 
Yeah, tbh I don't know too much about the battle of Crete, I really wanna get a book about it but school and money. I was thinking that the extra division would be nice for the battle and also provide a solid backbone that the Greek army could build from.
The NZ Official Histories are online. From a NZ perspective of course, and pre-Ultra (and various details about Imperial politics being available) but free!
This is another on-line source, but it was also written pre-Ultra and is from the British point of view.
 
The NZ Official Histories are online. From a NZ perspective of course, and pre-Ultra (and various details about Imperial politics being available) but free!

This is another on-line source, but it was also written pre-Ultra and is from the British point of view.

Ahhhhhh stop distracting me when I should be studying. Seriously though thank you. I'll read them asap.
 
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