Allies Go To War With German And Soviet Union

We all know about the German invasion of Poland, and Britain/Frances guarantees of Polish Sovereignty resulted in the war.

What if the French and British extended the war to the Soviets when they violated Polish territory as well. How would the war have gone with the Soviets and Germans fighting the same enemy.
 
I can't see it happening, since Stalin didn't trust Hitler, and Hitler hated communism. Even if they did have some sort of alliance, they would eventually turn on each other.
 
I can't see it happening, since Stalin didn't trust Hitler, and Hitler hated communism.

I can. The Allies choose to support the Fins in the Winter War. There, you now have a World War II consisting of Britain, France, Scandanavia and the United States vs Germany, Russia, Italy and Japan.
 
Oinkel Willie's 1984-esque scenario of a Nazi-Soviet permanent alliance (with the Soviets conveniently being redefined as Aryan due to the Varangian ancestry), a US-Britain-Commonwealth entity, and a rising Asian power is the worst-case scenario, I suppose.

On the other hand, with lebensraum being Hitler's obsession, he might turn on Stalin anyway once Britain is ejected from the Continent and the rest is pacified.

Then we get a realignment to OTL, with some more bad blood between the Western Allies and the USSR.
 
Good news for Japan

In a situation like that, Japan just might not face an embargo from the USA, and be allowed to run rampant in China. Who knows, Japan might even be able to be bribed into attacking Russia...
 
Gents,

We'll most likely see Operation Pike.

The recon flights had already occurred and both Britain and France were moving bombers into the region when the Phony War went finally hot.

While the effects of bombing was greatly exaggerated by many people during the period, it was the opinion of the many US petroleum experts working in and around Baku at the time that the typically shoddy nature of the Soviet industrial plants combined with the oil-soaked terrain, scattered spoil ponds, innumerable spills, and other disasters in waiting that a large scale fire caused by any source would tear through the fields around Baku like green corn through a goose.


Bill
 
This could actually end up as a three-sided war: Allies vs. Axis vs. USSR.

The Soviets will have a hard time beating the Germans without supplies from the Allies. The Allies may have it easier than OTL since all those supplies that went to the USSR due to Lend-Lease don't need to get shipped there.
 
In a situation like that, Japan just might not face an embargo from the USA, and be allowed to run rampant in China. Who knows, Japan might even be able to be bribed into attacking Russia...

Perhaps Japan could be persuaded to change their strategy to focus on the Soviet Union in exchange for material support and territorial concessions from the Allies and bang; Allied Japan.
 
I can. The Allies choose to support the Fins in the Winter War. There, you now have a World War II consisting of Britain, France, Scandanavia and the United States vs Germany, Russia, Italy and Japan.

This is a question I'd asked previously and the problem with the Triangle is that it is to the advantage of all parties to peace out of one of their conflicts, IE, A would deeply enjoy it if B and C killed each other.

One critical conflict, however, is going to remain. The Nazis and the Soviets utterly despise each other--they will not be the side that agrees to a peace. And so, the Allies left in the position of choosing their enemy, or, potentially, forcing both parties to make a favorable peace.

One thing that will change, however, is the aftermath. The Allies aren't going to view the surviving power as a friend and their assistance to that nation will only be that which is required to have them both lose.
 
This could actually end up as a three-sided war: Allies vs. Axis vs. USSR.

The Soviets will have a hard time beating the Germans without supplies from the Allies. The Allies may have it easier than OTL since all those supplies that went to the USSR due to Lend-Lease don't need to get shipped there.

Three sided wars as a rule generally do not last very long. Two of the nations will see the benefit in wiping out the third faction.
 
Britain definitely isn't going to war over the Soviet invasion of Poland. The guarantee had been specifically phrased that way. The best opportunity is Finland: after that, Britain does seem to have been making very serious plans, but there's no reason for Nazi Germany not to gum them up by launching the blitzkrieg.

The Soviets were widely regarded as a malevolent neutral or pseudo-Axis in the earliest phases of the war (Churchill was being typically contrarian when he made his "mystery inside a riddle" speech asserting that Russian and German interests fundamentally clashed, that Russia was acting on its own behalf, and that it wasn't necessarily Britain's enemy). What kept the peace was that Britain and France had their hands a bit full, and Stalin wasn't stupid enough to provoke them (note that he waited until Germany was on the attack before he gobbled up the Baltics and Besserabia; peace in Finland came when it did in large part because Stalin didn't want to risk a war with the Entente). But as pointed out, bombing Baku was certainly mulled.

Now, if everyone screws up and there is a war over Finland, Stalin obviously wants to end it as promptly as possible. What does he have to gain? The only place he can really strike an Entente interest is Iran (grandious, logistically fantastical schemes to invade India all came from Germany during the doomed Axis negotiations). I'd imagine the Soviet-Entente war would itself be "phony", except of course in Finland.

I'm not sure how Finland would unfold (you might want to ask a Finn), but once Germany's beaten France, I don't see how the Entente can sustain themselves there. After that, the diplomacy gets interesting, as Stalin was already extremely wary of Germany and confident of her eventual betrayal.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
This is a question I'd asked previously and the problem with the Triangle is that it is to the advantage of all parties to peace out of one of their conflicts, IE, A would deeply enjoy it if B and C killed each other.

Right. When the Nazis invaded the Soviet Union, Harry Truman (then just a senator) said that the United States should support the USSR until it began to win, then support Germany until it began to win, and simply keep it up until they both had bled each other white.
 
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