Allies Aren’t Destroyed in Belgium... Now What? [1940-Onwards]

[RedTerra]

So, I’ve been reading the Fall of France and it really seems like the Allies lost due to a huge strategic blunder. That being rushing into the Low Countries and being completely cut off through the Ardennes.

The best and most well equipped Allied divisions being annihilated or abandoning their equipment to escape.

And I’ve seen threads on ‘how the Allies could have stopped the Germans’ but I wanted to ask:

If the Allies werent cut off in Belgium, what happens next? What is the Allied strategy to defeat Germany?

Whether Germany opted for the Ardennes thrust or not is up to you. But I’m just really curious what the Allies planned on next, and what the Germans would do.

Did the Allies plan to use Holland as a staging ground to launch offensives into Northern Germany? Did the Allies plan to invade or cut off the industrially rich Rhineland? Do you think the Allies would actually try to take/besiege Berlin or do you think Germany would capitulate (military coup?) from losing in western Germany?

As for the Germans, I heard they had a handful of siege railway guns built to put holes in the maginot line (but IOTL they got deployed to Italy and Russia.) Do you think the Germans would try to breakthrough the Maginot line since most of the Allied Force were deployed in the North? Or do you think Germany would have tried to put all of their weight in stopping the Allies in Holland/Northern Germany?

Bonus Points: How long would the war last? Does technology and tactics evolve differently in this timeline? What does the post war look like?

Thanks for reading and looking forward to the replies!

 

[Orcbuster]

A Blunted Sickle - Thread II

The original thread can be found here - all 500 pages of it! 26th August 1941 At just after 2am, Rudolf Hess who is attempting to fly to Scotland to intercede with the Duke of Hamilton in order to bring about peace negotiations is shot down and killed over the North Sea by a Beaufighter from...

www.alternatehistory.com

Best timeline for this atm

 

[Finbarr the Fair]

So, I’ve been reading the Fall of France and it really seems like the Allies lost due to a huge strategic blunder. That being rushing into the Low Countries and being completely cut off through the Ardennes.

The best and most well equipped Allied divisions being annihilated or abandoning their equipment to escape.

And I’ve seen threads on ‘how the Allies could have stopped the Germans’ but I wanted to ask:

If the Allies werent cut off in Belgium, what happens next? What is the Allied strategy to defeat Germany?

Whether Germany opted for the Ardennes thrust or not is up to you. But I’m just really curious what the Allies planned on next, and what the Germans would do.

Did the Allies plan to use Holland as a staging ground to launch offensives into Northern Germany? Did the Allies plan to invade or cut off the industrially rich Rhineland? Do you think the Allies would actually try to take/besiege Berlin or do you think Germany would capitulate (military coup?) from losing in western Germany?

As for the Germans, I heard they had a handful of siege railway guns built to put holes in the maginot line (but IOTL they got deployed to Italy and Russia.) Do you think the Germans would try to breakthrough the Maginot line since most of the Allied Force were deployed in the North? Or do you think Germany would have tried to put all of their weight in stopping the Allies in Holland/Northern Germany?

Bonus Points: How long would the war last? Does technology and tactics evolve differently in this timeline? What does the post war look like?

Thanks for reading and looking forward to the replies!

What @Orcbuster said

But given the OTL situation of French politics, the condition of the Army, including senility or worse among its senior officers, the bad timing as its Air Force was reequipping with many units stood down and poor coordination with Britain, Belgium and the Netherlands. . .

It's a tough ask.

Edited for typo

 

[Cryhavoc101]

The French 10th Corps - 2 main infantry Divisions the 71st and 55th - that was tasked with holding the area around Sedan was made up of some very poor cat B units made up of reservists and older equipment etc but any paper exercise by even the lowest of officer cadet or wargamer would see how easy it would be to interfere with the crossing with the units to hand.

But this does not tell the whole story - the units were continuously moved about and sub units cut up with continuous personnel changes into and out of these units

They were also used for building of fortifications and had no real combat training and were moved frequently from position to position so did not even have the advantage of knowing the ground that they would be called upon to defend.

In fact one Lt in charge of a 25mm anti tank unit used his initiative to get his gunners to shoot their weapons in a disused quarry was rewarded for his initiative with 15 days confined to quarters.

This was the state of the units in X Corps in May 1940.

They lacked leadership, trained soldiers, experienced NCOs and educated officers and virtually nothing was done to address these shortcomings

We see that Initiative by junior leaders was not rewarded

The units had virtually no cohesion as many of the men in the lowest sub units did not know one another and because of the fashion that they had been used the units had limited knowledge of the ground they were expected to defend.

Couple this with the X Corps leadership making no real decision during the period when the Germans were crossing the Meuse and its plain to see why the very risky German plan was not punished as it should have been.

Germany should have rewarded the French leaders of X corps their highest honours.