Mrstrategy
Banned
What if Spain had declare war on germany in 1944 just after d-day happen in a agrement for some historical territory in morocco and france
Germany is busy with d-day,italy and the eastern front can they afford to send troops against Spain?Germany runs them over. They've still got enough strength to do so, and Spain isn't recovered from the civil war. No reason for Franco to do this.
Germany is busy with d-day,italy and the eastern front can they afford to send troops against Spain?
What if Spain had declare war on germany in 1944 just after d-day happen in a agrement for some historical territory in morocco and france
What if Spain had declare war on germany in 1944 just after d-day happen in a agrement for some historical territory in morocco and france
Germany runs them over. They've still got enough strength to do so, and Spain isn't recovered from the civil war. No reason for Franco to do this.
A more interesting scenario is Spain joins allies in 1942 under the conditions that they get a shit ton of lend lease, they get Gibraltar, and they get Libya.
Churchill would never consent to giving up Gibraltar under any circumstances.
A more interesting scenario is Spain joins allies in 1942 under the conditions that they get a shit ton of lend lease, they get Gibraltar, and they get Libya.
In return, they allow allied troops to land in Spanish ports during Operation Torch and make their way to the Pyrenees before the Germans can react. At this point Portugal would also join the allies as well.
You could see a 1943 invasion of southern France.
(This scenario is similar to the previous posters but at a slightly more earlier date which would make more sense).
I too like this option much better, as the allies can make an unopposed landing in Spanish ports, and play a waiting game with the Germans having to try to fight and supply an army across the boarder mountains, and in the face of all the fighters the allies can bring to bear against the local Luftwaffe forces, and bombing any German supplies attempting to make it to the front.A more interesting scenario is Spain joins allies in 1942 under the conditions that they get a shit ton of lend lease, they get Gibraltar, and they get Libya.
In return, they allow allied troops to land in Spanish ports during Operation Torch and make their way to the Pyrenees before the Germans can react. At this point Portugal would also join the allies as well.
You could see a 1943 invasion of southern France.
(This scenario is similar to the previous posters but at a slightly more earlier date which would make more sense).
I agree, but this is what Franco would get for free from the allies, a massive effort to rapidly improve Spanish transportation networks, port capacity and effeciency,Spain is a logisitcal sinkhole of the Allies. Its ports were not as capable as the French or Netherlands ports. Its railways suffered from three years of war & decades of marginal economic growth. A general rule of thumb for industrial Europe is a common single track railway can support approx 100,000 men or 3-4 divisions with corps support. Like Turkey the Spanish railways may have been adequate to support 25,000 per line. Looking at the map it appears there are only two such main rail lines crossing the Pyrenees. It took some 24 months to rebuild the Persian railway to what was needed for capacity. Ten months after the landings in Normandy the Allies were just starting to get a grip on restoring the Franco/Belgian railways. If the Allies land in Spain in November 1942, they might have a few key trunk lines up to snuff by early 1944. Or not.
Automotive roads were far worse.
I agree, but this is what Franco would get for free from the allies, a massive effort to rapidly improve Spanish transportation networks, port capacity and effeciency,
so that they could sustain and build up their own logistical capabilities. Spain has a broken economy and lots of infrastructure that needs modernization/repair? Get the allies to pay for it all, in addition for whatever else you care to ask for, for letting them in.
The allies could sit in Spain, and threaten a second front, without having to attack the Vichy, but giving the Germans no choice but to do so themselves. And when they do invade Vichy, they will be giving themselves a front at the Spanish boarder, and 1,000's more partisans behind them.