Allied Forces in Korea, 1970s-1990s...

MacCaulay

Banned
Turkey (deploying in '91, '97, '03, '10) can't commit much - most likely troops from III Corps of First Army (the Turkish component of NATO's Rapid Deployment Corps). Not sure what would arrive in a month.

Colombia committed a single 1000-man battalion in the first Korean War, and might be able to commit troops in '73 - probably a force of similar size, deployed in a month.

I'm wondering if perhaps non-combat units might be more important from Turkey and Colombia, especially since in the 1980s and 1990s both of them are fighting significant wars of their own against guerilla groups and narco forces.

What do those countries have for shipping capacity? It strikes me they might not have ROROs to move that stuff on their own.

In 2010, Indonesia probably would deploy 1st Infantry Division from its strategic reserve corps, with the 17th Airborne Infantry Brigade arriving in a week or two and the rest arriving within a two-month timespan.
I like that. Indonesia would be in, definitely. They're like Australia: lift capacity is there for infantry, and the political will would definitely be around.

South Africa committed a squadron of fighters in the first Korean War; might a similar commitment be made in '97, '03 or 2010?
That's a very interesting proposition. In the mid-70s and early-80s, the South African Defense Force and SAAF hadn't yet been worn down by the war they were fighting in SWAT and Angola, and they did actually have lift capacity in case they should have to make an amphibious assault somewhere on the coastline of Africa.

It might not be out of the realm of possibility for the South African government to make some sort of "we do this, you give us cash and weapons"-deal to build up some good will in the eyes of the world.
 
I don't think Colombia could commit combat troops after '73. '73 happens to be the one year where things were calm enough that troops could plausibly have been sent abroad. Noncombat troops are plausible, however - Colombia's been involved in a number of peacekeeping missions from the 1970s on.
The Nordic states are probably also good for noncombat troops.

In 2003 and 2010, Singapore would use the four Endurance-class LPDs; before that, she operated a single LST. Further, Singapore has a massive merchant marine that it could call on. Besides, the 21st Division is a rapid-deployment force, and at least part of it could probably be airlifted into Korea.

I envision Thailand possibly using HTMS Chakri Naruebet in a troop-carrying role, on the lines of HMAS Sydney, especially in 1997 - when it was just commissioned. The Thai merchant marine includes 13 Ro-Ros, which would definitely be used.
 
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While Japan obviously couldn't commit combat troops for political reasons, it would still play a large supporting role, and U.S. and other allied aircraft would stage out of Japanese air bases.

For instance, the Singaporean air force keeps a large portion of its aircraft in the U.S. for training and storage with contingency plans to move them to Singapore in the case of an emergency (this was done with helicopters and transport aircraft during the post-Tsunami relief operation in early 2005), so Singapore could probably rapidly move its US-deployed air units to Japan and start flying sorties in very short order.
 
While Japan obviously couldn't commit combat troops for political reasons, it would still play a large supporting role, and U.S. and other allied aircraft would stage out of Japanese air bases.

For instance, the Singaporean air force keeps a large portion of its aircraft in the U.S. for training and storage with contingency plans to move them to Singapore in the case of an emergency (this was done with helicopters and transport aircraft during the post-Tsunami relief operation in early 2005), so Singapore could probably rapidly move its US-deployed air units to Japan and start flying sorties in very short order.

Depending on the severity of the situation and the timeline this “Second Korean War” is going to put defence back to the top of the political agenda. At the very least, you are going to have potential clashes between JMSDF and North Korean forces especially if Japan is pressured to do everything short of actively entering the conflict.

If this did turn out to be a massive conflict, the threat of North Korea would see Japanese public opinion change dramatically, how Japanese troops in Korea would be viewed is a different matter. Until 2007, Japan didn’t have the process of changing its constitution however with the right circumstances, Japanese Naval and Air assets could be involved in some way. If the war drags on, Japanese troops could be deployed.

The effects on Japan depend on the success of the North Korean attack, the era and whether Japan is directly attacked. Such a conflict could see the reform of Article nine.
 
Article IX isn't the only issue, though it is a major one. I doubt China would permit a return of Japanese troops to the Asian mainland, and such would also look very bad in South Korean public opinion, potentially resulting in a propaganda coup for the North.
 
Article IX isn't the only issue, though it is a major one. I doubt China would permit a return of Japanese troops to the Asian mainland, and such would also look very bad in South Korean public opinion, potentially resulting in a propaganda coup for the North.

Again, it depends how bad things go for SK, if winning they would not want anything with Japan, If in trouble ...
 
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MacCaulay

Banned
So we're kind of agreed that at the One Week Mark we could see airborne and light infantry forces in battalion strength from Britain, France, Australia, Canada, Singapore, Indonesia, possibly the Dutch.

The One Month mark is kind of the minimum time scale that Allied countries like Britain, France, Australia, or Canada would need to move mechanized forces in.

This is where some important choices would need to be made: suppose Singapore can move in four armoured battalions, where as the Canadians can only move in two. But due to lift capacity and co-habitability with American units in the peninsula, the Canadians can resupply theirs' easier.
The more logical choice might be to tell the Singaporean military to send some rifle units and concentrate on mobilizing as much of it's medical and air force personnel/equipment as it can, so that logistical holes are being filled in the easiest way possible.
 

MacCaulay

Banned
is this the PB/PL variant you were talking about earlier, or something different?

The same. The T-72s and extra AIW counters were giving me ideas for a Cold War Hot-type scenario, then when I was designing the Operation Totalize one and the whole North Korean Artillery-scuffle came up, I got side tracked into wondering if I could use some of the books I've got to design a fairly good Second Korean War scenario.
 

Hyperion

Banned
Article IX isn't the only issue, though it is a major one. I doubt China would permit a return of Japanese troops to the Asian mainland, and such would also look very bad in South Korean public opinion, potentially resulting in a propaganda coup for the North.

Any time from 91 on, I could see Japan being involved through North Korea actually attacking them with missiles.

Not necessarily to hurt Japan directly, though I doubt many in North Korea would care one way or the other, but all the US bases in Japan would make tempting targets.

As far as air support, I could see Canada and Australia each sending in a squadron of F-18s. Depending on the overall situation, I would guess these aircraft would probably deploy from either the naval air station at Atsugi near Tokyo, or likely at the Iwakuni marine air station in the southern part of Japan, as both of those bases primarily support F-18 missions.

Given enough time, I could possibly even see Spain sending an F-18 squadron in as well.
 
What about India? Depending when it all kicks off, they might want to show the world how advanced they are and get in the US's good books, feel their trade in the region is threatened, or get one over on China. Does any of this seem plausible?
 
India had deployed a field ambulance to the Commonwealth Division during the Korean War, so I would expect thats what they would stick to doing until well into the late 70s. With Rajiv Ghandi in the seat then there is more foreign intervention as a possible-eg Sri Lanka, so that could be anything from a brigade up to a whole corps although India would be more concerned about watching its borders.

Generally though you could count on perhaps seeing battalion groups from over 35 states-all focussed on REMF detail with fighting left to the sceptics, the Limeys, the boys from the outback, the lumberjacks, the well known nation of interferers with sheep (can I say sheepshaggers? blast so I have) and the cloggies all aiding the good lads of the RoK.
 
jeesh, a field ambulance is a medical tactical unit of about 250 personnel capable of supporting a whole brigade. Think of it as something like a MASH unit although more mobile and nearer the frontline.

Other Brit/Commonwealth terms are:
Troop and Detachment- a platoon sized unit of between 12 and 50 men (SAS troops have 16 REngineers can have near 50) REME (repair bods have Light Aid Detachments of between 8 and 50 men)

Squadron, Battery, Workshop - a company sized unit of at least 3 troops (SAS Squadrons have 4 troops plus a SHQ with around 20 more personnel, RE Squadrons have around 250 personnel-well they did in the 1940s-80s)(BTW the REME have Workshops)

Regiment- this can be part of a tradtional title egThe Yorkshire Regiment with a number of battalions OR it can be a tactical formation such as an artillery regiment, engineer regt and so on. Made up of a number of batteries or squadrons.
 
jeesh, a field ambulance is a medical tactical unit of about 250 personnel capable of supporting a whole brigade. Think of it as something like a MASH unit although more mobile and nearer the frontline.

Other Brit/Commonwealth terms are:
Troop and Detachment- a platoon sized unit of between 12 and 50 men (SAS troops have 16 REngineers can have near 50) REME (repair bods have Light Aid Detachments of between 8 and 50 men)

Squadron, Battery, Workshop - a company sized unit of at least 3 troops (SAS Squadrons have 4 troops plus a SHQ with around 20 more personnel, RE Squadrons have around 250 personnel-well they did in the 1940s-80s)(BTW the REME have Workshops)

Regiment- this can be part of a tradtional title egThe Yorkshire Regiment with a number of battalions OR it can be a tactical formation such as an artillery regiment, engineer regt and so on. Made up of a number of batteries or squadrons.

Sorry. I thought the idea of just sending one ambulance was pretty unlikely... So India would likely be similar to many of the countries in Afghanistan and mainly send support elements?
 
up to the 80s I think they'd only send logistics of one kind or another. After that then things are different. you have a more confident India keen to stand up for itself and its place on the world stage.

Come 2050 India would probably send a carrier group plus a divisional command with around 4-5 brigades-although this would depend on China and Pakistan...
 
up to the 80s I think they'd only send logistics of one kind or another. After that then things are different. you have a more confident India keen to stand up for itself and its place on the world stage.

Come 2050 India would probably send a carrier group plus a divisional command with around 4-5 brigades-although this would depend on China and Pakistan...

And by 2050 the UK struggles to even send a battalion
 
The same. The T-72s and extra AIW counters were giving me ideas for a Cold War Hot-type scenario, then when I was designing the Operation Totalize one and the whole North Korean Artillery-scuffle came up, I got side tracked into wondering if I could use some of the books I've got to design a fairly good Second Korean War scenario.

In AIW, due to the small scale of the game, the bulk of the artillery is off board/indirect fire, with only a handful of on-the-board artillery pieces in the game. Using the AIW scenarios as a guide, maybe you could do the same...
 

MacCaulay

Banned
India had deployed a field ambulance to the Commonwealth Division during the Korean War, so I would expect thats what they would stick to doing until well into the late 70s. With Rajiv Ghandi in the seat then there is more foreign intervention as a possible-eg Sri Lanka, so that could be anything from a brigade up to a whole corps although India would be more concerned about watching its borders.

This may sound really stupid, but one ambulance? As in the vehicle?

jeesh, a field ambulance is a medical tactical unit of about 250 personnel capable of supporting a whole brigade. Think of it as something like a MASH unit although more mobile and nearer the frontline.

Sorry. I thought the idea of just sending one ambulance was pretty unlikely... So India would likely be similar to many of the countries in Afghanistan and mainly send support elements?

Funny fact about the Indian field ambulance: it's one of, if not the only, Commonwealth force to make a paratroop drop in Korea. I forget the circumstances, but they must've been awful if you're parachuting in medics.

In AIW, due to the small scale of the game, the bulk of the artillery is off board/indirect fire, with only a handful of on-the-board artillery pieces in the game. Using the AIW scenarios as a guide, maybe you could do the same...

Hmmm...my idea was to do a river-crossing type scenario using a 2-hex wide river map I've got, where the NKs have to advance across most of three or four boards (with about 5 or 6:1 superiority) to reach Allied defenses at a river. Basically make the game so that the North Koreans have to put so many units across in such-and-such amount of turns, and the Allies can have a decisive victory if the NKs don't put any bridges in the water and a marginal victory if they manage to keep the number of units on the other side at the end of the game below that needed for North Korean victory.
 
why not an 'into the DMZ' game, with a gazillion minefields, infantry in forts, etc. Maybe you could work NKs infamous tunnels into it somehow (infantry squads popping up on the map at certain locations?) Just for fun, I solo gamed a "Firepower" scenario set in the tunnels, with SK troopers vs. NK infantry; on the mapboards, only the road hexes were actual terrain (the tunnels); all other hexes were solid rock..
 
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