Allied Fascist Italy TL - Looking for feedback

I’ve been thinking of doing a TL for some time now and have been bouncing around some ideas. The one I’m leaning towards is a TL with Fascist Italy joining WW2 on the side of the Allies in 1940.

So I’m looking for feedback from any Italian history experts on A-H. In terms of a post-Munich POD to make an Allied Italy TL plausible.

I don’t think such a TL would be too much of a stretch. Relations between Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy were characterized by tensions & ambivalence. Despite id4alogical attraction between the two regimes, contemporary evidence suggests a lot of personal repulsion between leading figures of both regimes.

Any feedback on this would be helpful.:)
 
I’ve been thinking of doing a TL for some time now and have been bouncing around some ideas. The one I’m leaning towards is a TL with Fascist Italy joining WW2 on the side of the Allies in 1940.

So I’m looking for feedback from any Italian history experts on A-H. In terms of a post-Munich POD to make an Allied Italy TL plausible.

I don’t think such a TL would be too much of a stretch. Relations between Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy were characterized by tensions & ambivalence. Despite id4alogical attraction between the two regimes, contemporary evidence suggests a lot of personal repulsion between leading figures of both regimes.

Any feedback on this would be helpful.:)
By this point it's too late I'd say. By 1940 Germany has invaded Poland with an excellent army, and depending when in 1940 may've taken over Denmark, Norway, Low Countries and France.

I'd say 1938 is the latest, just try and have Austria resist Anschluss, have the Stresa Front brought up again, then Britain, France and Italy go to war with a very weak Germany that doesn't even have Austria, let along a rump Czech state.
 
Sort of cuts down the scope of the TL. I was hoping for at least a post-Munich POD. Mussolini for whatever reason getting cold feet as far as the Axis is concerned.

What could Germany do, or the Allies offer to get Italy ‘’on side’’?
 
Sort of cuts down the scope of the TL. I was hoping for at least a post-Munich POD. Mussolini for whatever reason getting cold feet as far as the Axis is concerned.

What could Germany do, or the Allies offer to get Italy ‘’on side’’?
Hmm... I believe I read somewhere that Churchill was willing to give Ulster to the Republic of Ireland to get them on-board. So maybe something like that? Offer a colony such as British Somaliland to Italy for free/a small cost to either guarantee their neutrality or in your case war against Germany.

Or maybe they could promise the Italians they wouldn't intervene in any Italian war against Yugoslavia for their support against Germany? This would further Mussolini's view of Mare Nostrum while taking on someone to the north whom could potentially be a problem.

Or, my last idea, have Hitler view South Tyrol as a part of the 'Greater German Reich', have any talks about ceding it go sour and so Mussolini views him as an enemy/potential enemy. The OTL 'South Tyrol Option Agreement' was decided upon in October 1939, so that still leaves quite a large scope for 1940.
 

maverick

Banned
Ask Geekhis Khan, he's sort of the expert now.

"Viva Balbo" might or might not include a Fascist Italy joining the allies against Germany in the near future.
 
I think your best POD is the Ethiopian Crisis.
Mussolini thought he had a Backroom Wink & Nod from France and Britain.
However a French opposition paper, plastered the backroom deal over the front page, as [IIIRC] part of a Corruption in Government series.

The resulting Scandal, Embargos, & Sanctions, pushed Italy away from GB/France and into Germany's Sphere.
Remove the Crisis and Italy remains part of the GB/French sphere.


Then Italy doesn't join the war in 1939, but does in 1940 when Germany invades France.

all the British troops that OTL went to Egypt, ITTL go to Italy.
 
I think 1940 might be pushing it - it depends on the fate of France. In 1914 Italy decided to join the Entente after the German advance was halted, they did the reverse in 1940 when it became clear that France would fall. I'm not an expert, but the French defeat seems pretty likely.

Also - what would Italy gain from joining the Allies?

* They wouldn't be able to invade Greece.
* Expansion into Yugoslavia is out.

The best they can hope for (and it seems unlikely) is being offered some colonial concessions by France and England - remember that when it was discovered that Samuel Hoare was planning to partition Ethiopia he had to resign.

An earlier POD regarding Austria might be possible?
 
Yeah, Vivia Balbo is a great TL but I was hoping for one with II Duce still in charge, for better or worse.;)

Thanks for the responses everyone, as for Mussolini reasons for going against Germany for one his motivation could be simple fear and jealousy of Hitler. Also a lot of his high ranking henchmen were very dubious about the alliance with Germany and Mussolini’s pride and ego could lead him to do rash things in OTL.

As for territorial gains once the war starts offering concessions might not be popular, but it doesn’t need to be public either. People swallowed Stalin’s various land grabs and Mussolini if occupying territory in the Balkans wouldn’t likely give it up post-war. France also might be willing to cut a deal over Tunisia, which had a high Italian population and was simply worthless when facing down the might of Nazi Germany and they needed any they could get.
 
Yeah, Vivia Balbo is a great TL but I was hoping for one with II Duce still in charge, for better or worse.;)

Thanks for the responses everyone, as for Mussolini reasons for going against Germany for one his motivation could be simple fear and jealousy of Hitler. Also a lot of his high ranking henchmen were very dubious about the alliance with Germany and Mussolini’s pride and ego could lead him to do rash things in OTL.

As for territorial gains once the war starts offering concessions might not be popular, but it doesn’t need to be public either. People swallowed Stalin’s various land grabs and Mussolini if occupying territory in the Balkans wouldn’t likely give it up post-war. France also might be willing to cut a deal over Tunisia, which had a high Italian population and was simply worthless when facing down the might of Nazi Germany and they needed any they could get.

A few years back I was found in some newsarchives from 1940, written just before Mussolini entered the war where the British were trying to persuade the French to cede Tunisia to the Italians to try to get them to enter the war. The British were willing to grant some territorial concessions involving the Anglo-Egyptian Sudan and parts of Eastern Kenya. Tunisia wouldn't be so far fetched since the European settlers there were outnumbered the French 2 to 1.
 
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