All of Philip IV of Spain's children live

I'm thinking that in such situation the King and the Duke of Orleans may well switch spouses, as the youngest daughter of the brood is plain not suitable for the Queen but fit for Duchesse d'Orleans. Alternatively, Catarina of Braganca may end up in France, since the peace treaty offering TTL is not enough for "no aid to Portugal" clause.

Interesting so we could possibly see both sons of France struggling to get issue out of their wives?
 
Felipe was about as set on her being queen of France as his sister, Anne was on having her for a daughter-in-law IIRC.

Spain won't bestow an infanta on Portugal (the Braganças are guilty of successful treason, but treason all the same, no way are the getting an infanta IMO). England won't TAKE an infanta (Charles I will remember how the Spanish jerked him around in the 1620s, and even the most diehard Protestant royalists might baulk at a Spanish queen (if James II was deposed by them conjuring up images of the fires of Smithfield in 1688, then fifty years earlier it might still be worse - especially since the house of Austria is (in the minds of Englishmen) trying to stamp out true religion and impose popery in Germany). Although Charles MIGHT try/suggest a match between the Princess Royal and D. Francisco (as lord of the Southern Netherlands - he thought a Nassau match was beneath her, and he angled for a match with D. Baltasar Carlos OTL so maybe less far fetched than a Spanish queen of England).
Ferdinand of Austria was already dead at that time (he died in 1654) as any serious talk about a wedding between Louise and Marie Therese started likely in 1657 and surely not before 1654

I was talking about England and Portugal in more general terms and political entities than related to Felipe IV daughters (not England in the OTL situation and no way Portugal under the Braganças still seen as traitors) and you can see I never proposed one of their princes or princesses... Francisco will not get Spanish Netherlands as indipendent kingdom because Madrid has zero interest in doing it...

About Savoy: alliances can change, young Duke Louis can be influenced by his proSpanish uncles to change his alliance and marry the infanta....
 
Ferdinand of Austria was already dead at that time (he died in 1654) as any serious talk about a wedding between Louise and Marie Therese started likely in 1657 and surely not before 1654

I was talking about England and Portugal in more general terms and political entities than related to Felipe IV daughters (not England in the OTL situation and no way Portugal under the Braganças still seen as traitors) and you can see I never proposed one of their princes or princesses... Francisco will not get Spanish Netherlands as indipendent kingdom because Madrid has zero interest in doing it...

About Savoy: alliances can change, young Duke Louis can be influenced by his proSpanish uncles to change his alliance and marry the infanta....

Is it possible to see a marriage between Maria Theresa and a son of Charles I?
 
Is it possible to see a marriage between Maria Theresa and a son of Charles I?
In the OTL situation? No way as Jonas was saying, the English internal situation was too unstable for that match... Maybe a match with Charles II after the Restauration if Spain had an Infanta of the right age but still very unlikely for the internal opposition to a such match
 
In the OTL situation? No way as Jonas was saying, the English internal situation was too unstable for that match... Maybe a match with Charles II after the Restauration if Spain had an Infanta of the right age but still very unlikely for the internal opposition to a such match

Hmm interesting, so that likely means then that such a marriage would need to wait till after Carlos II has a child then?
 
And if Maria Teresa is so far down in the ranks with so small a dowry, the French might prefer someone else (Catarina of Bragança was offered OTL, as were Margherita Violante of Savoy and Henrietta Anne of England)
I'm thinking that in such situation the King and the Duke of Orleans may well switch spouses, as the youngest daughter of the brood is plain not suitable for the Queen but fit for Duchesse d'Orleans. Alternatively, Catarina of Braganca may end up in France, since the peace treaty offering TTL is not enough for "no aid to Portugal" clause.

Maria Teresa would have the standard dowry of a Spanish princess so a decent sum but much less than the folly of her OTL dowry... Catarina of Bragança is the daughter of a not well established Kings, Margherita Violante is the daughter of a reigning Duke not a of a King and Henriette Anne is a younger daughter like Maria Teresa... Maria Teresa is still a daughter of the King of Spain and so she will either marry a ruler/heir or stay unmarried. Plus both Anne of Austria and Felipe IV would be pretty interested to have the wedding as seal of the peace (and that was quite usual). Was very unlikely for any daughter of the Holy Roman Emperor or the King of Spain to be married to a younger (and landless) son
 
Maria Teresa would have the standard dowry of a Spanish princess so a decent sum but much less than the folly of her OTL dowry... Catarina of Bragança is the daughter of a not well established Kings, Margherita Violante is the daughter of a reigning Duke not a of a King and Henriette Anne is a younger daughter like Maria Teresa... Maria Teresa is still a daughter of the King of Spain and so she will either marry a ruler/heir or stay unmarried. Plus both Anne of Austria and Felipe IV would be pretty interested to have the wedding as seal of the peace (and that was quite usual). Was very unlikely for any daughter of the Holy Roman Emperor or the King of Spain to be married to a younger (and landless) son

So in your view her marriage to Louis is guaranteed?
 
Hmm interesting, so that likely means then that such a marriage would need to wait till after Carlos II has a child then?

Maybe Charles/James can get away with an Infanta as second wife if England is still without an heir but I think is more likely waiting the next generation for a match with Spain (so the eldest son of either Charles II or James II married to a spanisjph infanta)

So in your view her marriage to Louis is guaranteed?
Yes, because she was the Spanish princess closest to his age and the only one avalaible at that time (plus the only other around Louis age was already married/engaged in Austria)
 
Maybe Charles/James can get away with an Infanta as second wife if England is still without an heir but I think is more likely waiting the next generation for a match with Spain (so the eldest son of either Charles II or James II married to a spanisjph infanta)


Yes, because she was the Spanish princess closest to his age and the only one avalaible at that time (plus the only other around Louis age was already married/engaged in Austria)

Agreed with you there re England. And this is very true, so Louis and Maria Theresa it is then. I wonder, if they have a daughter, would Louis try and get said daughter married to a son of Carlos
 
Interesting so we could possibly see both sons of France struggling to get issue out of their wives?

Not necessarily. Catarina wasn't barren, per se (IIRC there were 1663, 1666, 1669s "pregnancies"/miscarriages) With a different husband it could be a non-issue. Louis only had one son survive infancy OTL, so Catarina doesn't need to pop out an armada of kids, one kid of the right sex early enough in the marriage and Louis/France will be satisfied. If it's a girl, she'll be under pressure to pop out a son though, though no reason butterflies wouldn't allow her to have surviving children.
 
Not necessarily. Catarina wasn't barren, per se (IIRC there were 1663, 1666, 1669s "pregnancies"/miscarriages) With a different husband it could be a non-issue. Louis only had one son survive infancy OTL, so Catarina doesn't need to pop out an armada of kids, one kid of the right sex early enough in the marriage and Louis/France will be satisfied. If it's a girl, she'll be under pressure to pop out a son though, though no reason butterflies wouldn't allow her to have surviving children.

Interesting, and she'd likely come with the seven islands of Bombay as well.
 
Agreed with you there re England. And this is very true, so Louis and Maria Theresa it is then. I wonder, if they have a daughter, would Louis try and get said daughter married to a son of Carlos
Absolutely yes as she would have zero rights of succession in France
 
Not necessarily. Catarina wasn't barren, per se (IIRC there were 1663, 1666, 1669s "pregnancies"/miscarriages) With a different husband it could be a non-issue. Louis only had one son survive infancy OTL, so Catarina doesn't need to pop out an armada of kids, one kid of the right sex early enough in the marriage and Louis/France will be satisfied. If it's a girl, she'll be under pressure to pop out a son though, though no reason butterflies wouldn't allow her to have surviving children.
Catarina was not barren but is unlikely she would be seen as a match good enough for the King of France, dowry or not... Maybe for Orleans (with a very big dowry) but not for Louis XIV
 
Said marriage perhaps being slightly more successful in child bearing terms than otl
Truly the most probable results of a wedding between "Anne" of France and "Felipe V" of Spain I can see is with them childless (after a serie of miscarriages/stillbirths) or with an ATL analogue of our Carlos II of Spain plus a childbirth death for her so if your term of confront is Marie Louise and Carlos II yes slighty more successful
 
Truly the most probable results of a wedding between "Anne" of France and "Felipe V" of Spain I can see is with them childless (after a serie of miscarriages/stillbirths) or with an ATL analogue of our Carlos II of Spain plus a childbirth death for her so if your term of confront is Marie Louise and Carlos II yes slighty more successful

Oh what makes you say that? Due to their close relationship in terms of being cousins?
 
Oh what makes you say that? Due to their close relationship in terms of being cousins?
Yes... Look to Louis and Maria Teresa and Philippe to Henriette for seeing the results... Anne Marie and Elisabeth Charlotte of Orleans had not married close relatives, the Dauphin married a second cousin and while Orleans married a first cousin neither of them was child of closely related parents... Bourgogne and Anjou married second cousins while Berry who had married a first cousin had zero children
 
Yes... Look to Louis and Maria Teresa and Philippe to Henriette for seeing the results... Anne Marie and Elisabeth Charlotte of Orleans had not married close relatives, the Dauphin married a second cousin and while Orleans married a first cousin neither of them was child of closely related parents... Bourgogne and Anjou married second cousins while Berry who had married a first cousin had zero children

Hmm this is very true, I wonder, perhaps it would be more opportune for Carlos to marry his son elsewhere then?
 
Hmm this is very true, I wonder, perhaps it would be more opportune for Carlos to marry his son elsewhere then?
Sorry, but politics came first so either a French princess or an Austrian Archduchess as first wife. After the death of Anne our Felipe V will be able to remarry elsewhere
 
Sorry, but politics came first so either a French princess or an Austrian Archduchess as first wife. After the death of Anne our Felipe V will be able to remarry elsewhere

Hmm this is true, which means Spain is fucked for a generation aha.
 
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