All of Philip IV of Spain's children live

A question regarding Spain during the reign of Philip IV.

If all his children by Elisabeth of France surived what would the consequences be, and who might they marry?

For the record here are his children:

  • Maria Margaret of Austria, Infanta of Spain (14 August 1621 – 15 August 1621)
  • Margaret Maria Catherine of Austria, Infanta of Spain (25 November 1623 – 22 December 1623)
  • Maria Eugenia of Austria, Infanta of Spain (21 November 1625 – 21 August 1627)
  • A miscarried daughter (16 November 1626)
  • Isabella Maria Theresa of Austria, Infanta of Spain (31 October 1627 – 1 November 1627)
  • Balthasar Charles of Austria, Infante of Spain, Prince of Asturias (17 October 1629 – 9 October 1646), Prince of Asturias.
  • Francis Ferdinand of Austria, Infante of Spain (12 March 1634)
  • Maria Anna Antonia Dominica Jacinta of Austria, Infanta of Spain (17 January 1636 – 5 December 1636)
  • Maria Theresa of Austria, Infanta of Spain (10 September 1638 – 30 July 1683),
  • A miscarried daughter (1640).
  • A miscarried son (1644).
So, there'd be eight surviving children, two sons and six daughters. Including the miscarriages that's another son and two daughters, taking the total to eleven. Marriages for them might be hard to find, I imagine one or two would enter the Nunnery. I also imagine a surviving Balthasar would mean he would marry his cousin as originally planned, but what of Francis?
 
Maybe the miscarriages can remain as such.
Balthasar Carlos will marry Mariana of Austria as decided, for Francis I fear we will need to marry him to another cousin so the most likely choices are:
Anne Marie Louise of Orléans (she is six years older but still possible) or one of her half sisters
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Margaret_Yolande_of_Savoy
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Henriette_Adelaide_of_Savoy
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Catherine_Beatrice_of_Savoy

Maria Theresa here will directly marry Louis XIV as her cousin Ferdinand of Austria will be engaged to one of her older sisters (Isabella, six years older than him or Maria Anna, three years younger)...

Husbands for the older princesses are not so easy to find but I suppose a couple of them can marry Austrian relatives

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archduke_Leopold_Wilhelm_of_Austria for any of the three older girls

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archduke_Ferdinand_Charles_of_Austria can work for any of the girls (he is seven years younger than Maria Margarita)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinando_II_de'_Medici,_Grand_Duke_of_Tuscany Can also work for the two eldest girls (who have about the same age of his OTL wife) if for any reason his wedding to Vittoria della Rovere is butterflied (maybe Vittoria marry the next brother of Ferdinand?)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Hyacinth,_Duke_of_Savoy or https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Emmanuel_II,_Duke_of_Savoy can work for Maria Anna if Isabella marry Ferdinand IV (or if their older brother Louis survive he was born in 1622 so good for any of the older girls)
 
Maybe the miscarriages can remain as such.
Balthasar Carlos will marry Mariana of Austria as decided, for Francis I fear we will need to marry him to another cousin so the most likely choices are:
Anne Marie Louise of Orléans (she is six years older but still possible) or one of her half sisters
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Margaret_Yolande_of_Savoy
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Henriette_Adelaide_of_Savoy
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Catherine_Beatrice_of_Savoy

Maria Theresa here will directly marry Louis XIV as her cousin Ferdinand of Austria will be engaged to one of her older sisters (Isabella, six years older than him or Maria Anna, three years younger)...

Husbands for the older princesses are not so easy to find but I suppose a couple of them can marry Austrian relatives

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archduke_Leopold_Wilhelm_of_Austria for any of the three older girls

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archduke_Ferdinand_Charles_of_Austria can work for any of the girls (he is seven years younger than Maria Margarita)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinando_II_de'_Medici,_Grand_Duke_of_Tuscany Can also work for the two elder girls (who have about the same age of his OTL wife) if for any reason his wedding to Vittoria della Rovere is butterflied (maybe Vittoria marry the next brother of Ferdinand?)

Agreed about the miscarriages and Balthasar Carlos, Francis to Henriette Adelaide of savoy seems good, as does leopold Wilhelm for Margaret Maria Catherine, Isabella Maria Theresa for Ferdinand Charles, and Maria Margaret to Ferdinand Of Tuscany works for me :)
 
So the full list will be something like that?

Maria Margaret of Austria (14 August 1621) marry Ferdinand II of Tuscany
Margaret Maria Catherine of Austria (25 November 1623) marry Archduke Leopold Wilhelm of Austria
Maria Eugenia of Austria (21 November 1625)
Isabella Maria Theresa of Austria (31 October 1627) marry Archduke Ferdinand Charles of Austria-Tyrol
Balthasar Charles of Austria (17 October 1629) marry Archduchess Maria Anna of Austria
Francis Ferdinand of Austria (12 March 1634) marry Henriette Adélaïde of Savoy (or Catherine Beatrice, the other married the Elector of Bavaria)
Maria Anna Antonia Dominica Jacinta of Austria (17 January 1636) marry Ferdinand IV, Holy Roman Emperor
Maria Theresa of Austria (10 September 1638) marry Louis XIV of France

For Maria Eugenia either nun, unmarried or a surviving Louis Amadeus of Savoy (or see who can be offered by Parma, Modena, Mantua or other Italian states)
 
So the full list will be something like that?

Maria Margaret of Austria (14 August 1621) marry Ferdinand II of Tuscany
Margaret Maria Catherine of Austria (25 November 1623) marry Archduke Leopold Wilhelm of Austria
Maria Eugenia of Austria (21 November 1625)
Isabella Maria Theresa of Austria (31 October 1627) marry Archduke Ferdinand Charles of Austria-Tyrol
Balthasar Charles of Austria (17 October 1629) marry Archduchess Maria Anna of Austria
Francis Ferdinand of Austria (12 March 1634) marry Henriette Adélaïde of Savoy (or Catherine Beatrice, the other married the Elector of Bavaria)
Maria Anna Antonia Dominica Jacinta of Austria (17 January 1636) marry Ferdinand IV, Holy Roman Emperor
Maria Theresa of Austria (10 September 1638) marry Louis XIV of France

For Maria Eugenia either nun, unmarried or a surviving Louis Amadeus of Savoy (or see who can be offered by Parma, Modena, Mantua or other Italian states)

I like it, not only do we have one more male habsburg line for Spain, we also have Leopold Wilhelm with potential for children now also. And agreed. I think the louis Amadeus of savoy for Maria Eugenia
 
I like it, not only do we have one more male habsburg line for Spain, we also have Leopold Wilhelm with potential for children now also. And agreed. I think the louis Amadeus of savoy for Maria Eugenia
Plus Ferdinand Charles and Leopold Wilhelm are not so closely related to their brides (and Ferdinand Charles OTL bride was a much closer relative than the Spanish princess)...
Savoy, Ferdinand and Mariana are all first cousins instead and Louis XIV a double one but still Habsburg survival almost guaranteed
 
Plus Ferdinand Charles and Leopold Wilhelm are not so closely related to their brides (and Ferdinand Charles OTL bride was a much closer relative than the Spanish princess)...
Savoy, Ferdinand and Mariana are all first cousins instead and Louis XIV a double one but still Habsburg survival almost guaranteed

Definitely, looking positive all Round then. Now for the family games aha
 
Definitely, looking positive all Round then. Now for the family games aha

Thinking about it again better switch the matches of the eldest girls as all the reasons for a match between Leopold Wilhelm and an infanta (aka securing better the succession of either Austria or Spain) would point to the eldest infanta as bride (with likely the groom named as Governor of Spanish Netherlands). Margaret is over than a year younger than Vittoria but still the daughter of the King of Spain will be a too interesting prospect for both Cristina and Maddalena for saying no because of her age.

Controlling better family relationships other than first cousins:
Ferdinand of Tuscany: mother of the groom was the sister of the grandmother of the bride
Leopold Wilhelm: father of the groom was brother of the bride’s grandmother
Ferdinand Charles of Tyrol: second cousins as the groom’s paternal grandfather was brother of the bride’s paternal grandmother (OTL bride a double first cousin)
 
Thinking about it again better switch the matches of the eldest girls as all the reasons for a match between Leopold Wilhelm and an infanta (aka securing better the succession of either Austria or Spain) would point to the eldest infanta as bride (with likely the groom named as Governor of Spanish Netherlands). Margaret is over than a year younger than Vittoria but still the daughter of the King of Spain will be a too interesting prospect for both Cristina and Maddalena for saying no because of her age.

Controlling better family relationships other than first cousins:
Ferdinand of Tuscany: mother of the groom was the sister of the grandmother of the bride
Leopold Wilhelm: father of the groom was brother of the bride’s grandmother
Ferdinand Charles of Tyrol: second cousins as the groom’s paternal grandfather was brother of the bride’s paternal grandmother (OTL bride a double first cousin)

Maria Margaret of Austria (14 August 1621) marry Archduke Leopold Wilhelm of Austria
Margaret Maria Catherine of Austria (25 November 1623) marry Ferdinand II, grand duke of Tuscany
Maria Eugenia of Austria (21 November 1625) m Louise Amadeus of savoy
Isabella Maria Theresa of Austria (31 October 1627) marry Archduke Ferdinand Charles of Austria-Tyrol
Balthasar Charles of Austria (17 October 1629) marry Archduchess Maria Anna of Austria
Francis Ferdinand of Austria (12 March 1634) marry Henriette Adélaïde of Savoy (or Catherine Beatrice, the other married the Elector of Bavaria)
Maria Anna Antonia Dominica Jacinta of Austria (17 January 1636) marry Ferdinand IV, Holy Roman Emperor
Maria Theresa of Austria (10 September 1638) marry Louis XIV of France
 
I like it, not only do we have one more male habsburg line for Spain, we also have Leopold Wilhelm with potential for children now also. And agreed. I think the louis Amadeus of savoy for Maria Eugenia

Savoy (with the exception of Tomaso Francesco and Maurizio) went anti-Spanish when Felipe III kept having boys. Until Felipe IV was born, they had every hope of succeeding to the Spanish thrones (that Anne of Austria was born made no difference, she'd be married to their eldest son). And once Madame Reale won the regency disputes, it moved to even less likely, since a) she was French, and b) she had negotiations going with Portugal for a double match between one of her daughters and Téodósio de Bragança and her son and the Princess Joana (elder sister of Catarina of Bragança). Christine's not letting a Spanish infanta (even if it's her niece) arrive in Turin since a) what has Spain, bankrupt as it is, got to offer? and b) Spain might insist as part of the marriage contract that Christine be removed (à la Maria Luiza de Gusmão). The woman vetted her daughter-in-law OTL (Françoise d'Orléans instead of Marguerite because Frankie was more pliable), I don't see her doing any different here.
 
Savoy (with the exception of Tomaso Francesco and Maurizio) went anti-Spanish when Felipe III kept having boys. Until Felipe IV was born, they had every hope of succeeding to the Spanish thrones (that Anne of Austria was born made no difference, she'd be married to their eldest son). And once Madame Reale won the regency disputes, it moved to even less likely, since a) she was French, and b) she had negotiations going with Portugal for a double match between one of her daughters and Téodósio de Bragança and her son and the Princess Joana (elder sister of Catarina of Bragança). Christine's not letting a Spanish infanta (even if it's her niece) arrive in Turin since a) what has Spain, bankrupt as it is, got to offer? and b) Spain might insist as part of the marriage contract that Christine be removed (à la Maria Luiza de Gusmão). The woman vetted her daughter-in-law OTL (Françoise d'Orléans instead of Marguerite because Frankie was more pliable), I don't see her doing any different here.

Hmm this is true, so does this mean then that Maria Eugenia likely enters a nunnery?
 
Leopold Wilhelm is a pretty bad match. Spain isn't going to hand him the Southern Netherlands here (that'll go to Francisco), so what does he bring to the table? The earliest LW is getting married is in the 1650s (if the imperial succession looks possible), otherwise, he's a waste for a Spanish infanta.

James VI wanted a Habsburg bride (either Maria Eugenia or Cäcilie Renata) for his Palatine grandson (Heinrich Friedrich), which is possibly a SLIGHTLY better match than LW - the plan was that the Palatinate would be restored to the Winter King with the marriage. Whether this would've happened IDK- but at least Heinrich/Karl II's got a country to rule
 
Leopold Wilhelm is a pretty bad match. Spain isn't going to hand him the Southern Netherlands here (that'll go to Francisco), so what does he bring to the table? The earliest LW is getting married is in the 1650s (if the imperial succession looks possible), otherwise, he's a waste for a Spanish infanta.

James VI wanted a Habsburg bride (either Maria Eugenia or Cäcilie Renata) for his Palatine grandson (Heinrich Friedrich), which is possibly a SLIGHTLY better match than LW - the plan was that the Palatinate would be restored to the Winter King with the marriage. Whether this would've happened IDK- but at least Heinrich/Karl II's got a country to rule

Hmm interesting, so do you think then that Leopold Wilhelm would only have married had Francisco had not survived?
 
Hmm interesting, so do you think then that Leopold Wilhelm would only have married had Francisco had not survived?

I don't think anyone PLANNED for LW to marry at all. There was sort of a surplus of archdukes-infantes until the 1640s. So, I don't see LW marrying in a situation where he has nothing to bring to the table (not to mention Felipe IV considered ONE marriage to the Austrian branch enough - why he refused a marriage between Maria Teresa and the king of the Romans once he/his son got Maria Anna). Francisco will likely get some of D. Juan José's OTL posts in the Low Countries/Naples.

Spain should use its excess infantas to diversify its siplomatic portfolio. One of the elder ones could snake Maximilian I of Bavaria from her cousin. I mean, what she might lack in dowry, she'd make up for in not being almost middle-aged. Or one might end up with Ferdinand III as a second wife (assuming he needs one. Maria of Spain was killed by a caesarean gone wrong IIRC; her successor wasn't much luckier).

Especially given that with two sons, Felipe isn't likely viewing the end of his dynasty in sight. The 30YW is on, so that limits the bridal options for the kids, but D. Juan José was suggested for both Catarina of Bragança and a Farnese girl, plus his dad recommended he marry a Mazarinette (D. Juan suggested he marry Margarita Teresa instead. Felipe jumped out of his deathbed and laid into his son with his cane IIRC. No lack of ambition, our JJ ;) ).

That would give Spain ties to Bavaria, Parma and Austria. I honestly can't see Felipe agreeing to a wholesale marriage between his daughters and the Austrians. Another option might be Wolfgang Wilhelm of Neuberg. A Catholic infanta might be more attractive than his Protestant second wife (likewise, he might opt for the Spaniard for his son if he doesn't wanna wait - there was actually a whole horse-selling thing for Philipp Wilhelm's marriage before he wed his Waza wife. He was originally engaged to Luise Charlotte of Brandenburg (who'd come with her inheritance rights to the Kleves inheritance in lieu of a large dowry, and Neuburg would get the whole of the former United Duchies), then when that became impossible, Anna de Medici was bachelorette no. 2 - but whoever was arranging her marriage made the price too steep (Wolfgang would be obliged to abdicate so that Anna would marry a REIGNING sovereign); finally Brandenburg started thinking the once-united duchies would look nice with the Hohenzollern eagle instead of the Wittelsbach lion flying over it, so Wolfgang married his son to the daughter of the duke of Prussia's overlord, the king of Poland).
 
Leopold Wilhelm is a pretty bad match. Spain isn't going to hand him the Southern Netherlands here (that'll go to Francisco), so what does he bring to the table? The earliest LW is getting married is in the 1650s (if the imperial succession looks possible), otherwise, he's a waste for a Spanish infanta.

James VI wanted a Habsburg bride (either Maria Eugenia or Cäcilie Renata) for his Palatine grandson (Heinrich Friedrich), which is possibly a SLIGHTLY better match than LW - the plan was that the Palatinate would be restored to the Winter King with the marriage. Whether this would've happened IDK- but at least Heinrich/Karl II's got a country to rule
Yes really, that match would likely happen only if the boys health in either side was not the best (and I said only Governor of Netherlands for him, not ruler who is unlikely also for Francisco... If the boy will have some lands of his own that will be more likely Milan than Netherlands)...
 
I don't think anyone PLANNED for LW to marry at all. There was sort of a surplus of archdukes-infantes until the 1640s. So, I don't see LW marrying in a situation where he has nothing to bring to the table (not to mention Felipe IV considered ONE marriage to the Austrian branch enough - why he refused a marriage between Maria Teresa and the king of the Romans once he/his son got Maria Anna). Francisco will likely get some of D. Juan José's OTL posts in the Low Countries/Naples.

Spain should use its excess infantas to diversify its siplomatic portfolio. One of the elder ones could snake Maximilian I of Bavaria from her cousin. I mean, what she might lack in dowry, she'd make up for in not being almost middle-aged. Or one might end up with Ferdinand III as a second wife (assuming he needs one. Maria of Spain was killed by a caesarean gone wrong IIRC; her successor wasn't much luckier).

Especially given that with two sons, Felipe isn't likely viewing the end of his dynasty in sight. The 30YW is on, so that limits the bridal options for the kids, but D. Juan José was suggested for both Catarina of Bragança and a Farnese girl, plus his dad recommended he marry a Mazarinette (D. Juan suggested he marry Margarita Teresa instead. Felipe jumped out of his deathbed and laid into his son with his cane IIRC. No lack of ambition, our JJ ;) ).

That would give Spain ties to Bavaria, Parma and Austria. I honestly can't see Felipe agreeing to a wholesale marriage between his daughters and the Austrians. Another option might be Wolfgang Wilhelm of Neuberg. A Catholic infanta might be more attractive than his Protestant second wife (likewise, he might opt for the Spaniard for his son if he doesn't wanna wait - there was actually a whole horse-selling thing for Philipp Wilhelm's marriage before he wed his Waza wife. He was originally engaged to Luise Charlotte of Brandenburg (who'd come with her inheritance rights to the Kleves inheritance in lieu of a large dowry, and Neuburg would get the whole of the former United Duchies), then when that became impossible, Anna de Medici was bachelorette no. 2 - but whoever was arranging her marriage made the price too steep (Wolfgang would be obliged to abdicate so that Anna would marry a REIGNING sovereign); finally Brandenburg started thinking the once-united duchies would look nice with the Hohenzollern eagle instead of the Wittelsbach lion flying over it, so Wolfgang married his son to the daughter of the duke of Prussia's overlord, the king of Poland).

Hmm interesting so perhaps Maria Margaret marries to Philip William, then? Or as you suggested Henry Frederick as part of a peace process?
 
I don't think anyone PLANNED for LW to marry at all. There was sort of a surplus of archdukes-infantes until the 1640s. So, I don't see LW marrying in a situation where he has nothing to bring to the table (not to mention Felipe IV considered ONE marriage to the Austrian branch enough - why he refused a marriage between Maria Teresa and the king of the Romans once he/his son got Maria Anna). Francisco will likely get some of D. Juan José's OTL posts in the Low Countries/Naples.

Spain should use its excess infantas to diversify its siplomatic portfolio. One of the elder ones could snake Maximilian I of Bavaria from her cousin. I mean, what she might lack in dowry, she'd make up for in not being almost middle-aged. Or one might end up with Ferdinand III as a second wife (assuming he needs one. Maria of Spain was killed by a caesarean gone wrong IIRC; her successor wasn't much luckier).

Especially given that with two sons, Felipe isn't likely viewing the end of his dynasty in sight. The 30YW is on, so that limits the bridal options for the kids, but D. Juan José was suggested for both Catarina of Bragança and a Farnese girl, plus his dad recommended he marry a Mazarinette (D. Juan suggested he marry Margarita Teresa instead. Felipe jumped out of his deathbed and laid into his son with his cane IIRC. No lack of ambition, our JJ ;) ).

That would give Spain ties to Bavaria, Parma and Austria. I honestly can't see Felipe agreeing to a wholesale marriage between his daughters and the Austrians. Another option might be Wolfgang Wilhelm of Neuberg. A Catholic infanta might be more attractive than his Protestant second wife (likewise, he might opt for the Spaniard for his son if he doesn't wanna wait - there was actually a whole horse-selling thing for Philipp Wilhelm's marriage before he wed his Waza wife. He was originally engaged to Luise Charlotte of Brandenburg (who'd come with her inheritance rights to the Kleves inheritance in lieu of a large dowry, and Neuburg would get the whole of the former United Duchies), then when that became impossible, Anna de Medici was bachelorette no. 2 - but whoever was arranging her marriage made the price too steep (Wolfgang would be obliged to abdicate so that Anna would marry a REIGNING sovereign); finally Brandenburg started thinking the once-united duchies would look nice with the Hohenzollern eagle instead of the Wittelsbach lion flying over it, so Wolfgang married his son to the daughter of the duke of Prussia's overlord, the king of Poland).
You are sure Felipe refuted the Austrian match for Maria Theresa OTL? I read they were engaged until his death (and her engagement to Louis XIV was established a couple of years after Ferdinand’s death)... I was excluding german matches because usually Spain married only in Austria and Italy plus France (and I see only England and Portugal having chances to end with an Infanta as Queen and all depending from the political circumstances)
 
You are sure Felipe refuted the Austrian match for Maria Theresa OTL? I read they were engaged until his death (and her engagement to Louis XIV was established a couple of years after Ferdinand’s death)... I was excluding german matches because usually Spain married only in Austria and Italy plus France (and I see only England and Portugal having chances to end with an Infanta as Queen and all depending from the political circumstances)

Does the Tuscan marriage still stand for one of the girls?
 
Does the Tuscan marriage still stand for one of the girls?
Tuscany is an Italian state, Archduchess Magdalena was choised as wife for Cosimo II as proxy Spain princess as Felipe III was married to her sister so I would say there are chances to have that wedding with enough infantas available.
 
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Savoy (with the exception of Tomaso Francesco and Maurizio) went anti-Spanish when Felipe III kept having boys. Until Felipe IV was born, they had every hope of succeeding to the Spanish thrones (that Anne of Austria was born made no difference, she'd be married to their eldest son). And once Madame Reale won the regency disputes, it moved to even less likely, since a) she was French, and b) she had negotiations going with Portugal for a double match between one of her daughters and Téodósio de Bragança and her son and the Princess Joana (elder sister of Catarina of Bragança). Christine's not letting a Spanish infanta (even if it's her niece) arrive in Turin since a) what has Spain, bankrupt as it is, got to offer? and b) Spain might insist as part of the marriage contract that Christine be removed (à la Maria Luiza de Gusmão). The woman vetted her daughter-in-law OTL (Françoise d'Orléans instead of Marguerite because Frankie was more pliable), I don't see her doing any different here.

About Savoy we are talking about a different scenario as Louis Amadeus was born in 1622 so at the death of his father in 1637 he would be already 15, old enough to be engaged, almost married and ready to rule without the need of any regency so Christine of France is not a real issue. At this point I say Louis will be married to the eldest girl with Ferdinand of Tuscany to the second
 
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