All Hail Germania (TL Planning)

Possible Habsburg Family Tree:

AHG Habsburg Tree.png
 
Alright initial reaction.

Poor Portugal is going to be united with Spain again. Though I suppose a Kingdom of Iberia will make a counter weight to the HRE.

Brittany independent. Implying balkanized "France." Mayhap a playground for competing Iberian and Germanic interests?

Please save Scotland from the Southrons.

EDIT:
Egads, you even have an Amadeus!
 
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Alright initial reaction.

Poor Portugal is going to be united with Spain again. Though I suppose a Kingdom of Iberia will make a counter weight to the HRE.
Sorry, but in all fairness, I'm think Portugal will get a better deal out of the union then they did in OTL.

Brittany independent. Implying balkanized "France." Mayhap a playground for competing Iberian and Germanic interests?
A playground for German, Iberian, English, Scottish, and Breton, interests.

Please save Scotland from the Southrons.
Done

EDIT:
Egads, you even have an Amadeus!
Rock me Amadeus

On another note I should explain somethings on the Tree. Obviously not all of descendants of the House of Habsburg are shown (or for that matter spouses), just the ones that are important to explain succession and what not. Most dates of birth and death correspond to person they are/are the analogue of.
 
Good idea. A pro-French pope could increase the support of the electors and the imperial diet.
I'm thinking that Francis will get elected because of a pro-French Pope and that will be what pushes Philip to Luther, and triggers the War of German Unification, as it will push many of the other German Princes who do not want French domination, to Philip.
 
Independent Kingdom of Scotland, the Fatherland a continent dominating Empire, and German colonization of the New World. You broke into my happy place didn't you?
 
Independent Kingdom of Scotland, the Fatherland a continent dominating Empire, and German colonization of the New World. You broke into my happy place didn't you?
Well with Edward VI surviving and Elizabeth in Iberia, the independence of Scotland is much easier to ensure.
 
European colonies in the New World

How will the Burgundians and Germans treat the native tribes?

IOTL, the English colonists were religious fanatics that didn't tolerate the natives' culture, contrary to the French who were much more tolerant (OK, this could have also been the effect of the relative small number of French colonists, but the point is still valid). But the Habsburg Emperor, who rules over different peoples with different cultures, could come up with another form of colonization.
 
How will the Burgundians and Germans treat the native tribes?

IOTL, the English colonists were religious fanatics that didn't tolerate the natives' culture, contrary to the French who were much more tolerant (OK, this could have also been the effect of the relative small number of French colonists, but the point is still valid). But the Habsburg Emperor, who rules over different peoples with different cultures, could come up with another form of colonization.
It will likely vary based on the colony. Obviously they Habsburg aren't just going to sit around and let the Aztecs, Incas, and Maya just continue, they do want gold and silver after all. They maybe more willing to integrate some of the Northern tribes more easily as they don't have the material resources the large native civilizations do. Of course, we also have to take into account disease as there will be a much more diverse ethnic make up of Habsburg colonies.
 
Interesting ideas.

One thing that might be interesting considering the period and the fact that the expeditions west are sailing from Hamburg is the role of the Hanseatic League in providing a commercial framework for the colonial project of the New World. This could get complicated since the Hanse really do have their own political project, which is if I recall correctly counter to centralization. So that even as on one level German expansion into the New World creates wealth that fuels a centralizing project, it also empowers some forces within the empire with the ability to thwart it.

Also, I wonder how much worse France does in this timeline. In ours, it faced a Habsburg dynasty reinforced with wealth being pumped to Europe from the New World via Spain. If the recipient of this wealth is the HRE rather than Spain, France may not be in that different a position. And if the HRE is slower to explore and settle the New World than Spain, which seems possible for several reasons, then France actually could get a net benefit in those decades.

And one final note on having the HRE pursue wealth-creating colonies in the New World. Let's say they find the silver deposits of Peru and begin exploiting them as in our timeline, using cheap labor. This then undercuts the important silver mining interests in the Harz and in Bohemia, which have higher exploitation-costs. In our timeline, I believe this led to some economic problems, ie, abandoned mines. In the timeline I've been working on, it creates an interesting policy debate on protectionism in that united Germany. But here in this timeline, the Emperor is the beneficiary of the New World mines, and this seems like it would create a conflict of interests and eventually a powder keg. Not something that weakens the ideas presented in any way, but which creates the possibility for an interesting subplot in which there is a political constituency within the empire for protectionist opposition to colonial mining enterprises.
 
And one final note on having the HRE pursue wealth-creating colonies in the New World. Let's say they find the silver deposits of Peru and begin exploiting them as in our timeline, using cheap labor. This then undercuts the important silver mining interests in the Harz and in Bohemia, which have higher exploitation-costs. In our timeline, I believe this led to some economic problems, ie, abandoned mines. In the timeline I've been working on, it creates an interesting policy debate on protectionism in that united Germany. But here in this timeline, the Emperor is the beneficiary of the New World mines, and this seems like it would create a conflict of interests and eventually a powder keg. Not something that weakens the ideas presented in any way, but which creates the possibility for an interesting subplot in which there is a political constituency within the empire for protectionist opposition to colonial mining enterprises.
That is an interesting idea. It could also eventually spiral into a civil war down the line, with members of the HRE rebelling against the Emperor over being disenfranchised by the New World colonies. Of course the Emperor would win the war, IV wouldn't write it any other way :p, but it could act as a catalyst for further centralisation further down the line, say in the late 1790s.
 
Interesting ideas.

One thing that might be interesting considering the period and the fact that the expeditions west are sailing from Hamburg is the role of the Hanseatic League in providing a commercial framework for the colonial project of the New World. This could get complicated since the Hanse really do have their own political project, which is if I recall correctly counter to centralization. So that even as on one level German expansion into the New World creates wealth that fuels a centralizing project, it also empowers some forces within the empire with the ability to thwart it.
I'm beginning to lean more toward Columbus leaving from a Flemish/Dutch/Burgundian port, just because it would make more sense. Maximilian would be funding him with funds from his Burgundian Wife, and as they were sailing for Him, not for the HRE(when Columbus comes to Maximilian, Friedrich III is still technically Emperor, granted he is on his death bed but...), it is likely that the ships that he would have or would have built for Columbus would be in territory that he personally controlled(as the Regent for Philip), rather then territory that merely swore loyalty to him.

Also, I wonder how much worse France does in this timeline. In ours, it faced a Habsburg dynasty reinforced with wealth being pumped to Europe from the New World via Spain. If the recipient of this wealth is the HRE rather than Spain, France may not be in that different a position. And if the HRE is slower to explore and settle the New World than Spain, which seems possible for several reasons, then France actually could get a net benefit in those decades.
France will become the playground for the English, Germans, and Spanish as I have said. It may do better short term (getting a puppet Pope and then Francis elected HRE), however in the long run, it will be throughly balkanized.

And one final note on having the HRE pursue wealth-creating colonies in the New World. Let's say they find the silver deposits of Peru and begin exploiting them as in our timeline, using cheap labor. This then undercuts the important silver mining interests in the Harz and in Bohemia, which have higher exploitation-costs. In our timeline, I believe this led to some economic problems, ie, abandoned mines. In the timeline I've been working on, it creates an interesting policy debate on protectionism in that united Germany. But here in this timeline, the Emperor is the beneficiary of the New World mines, and this seems like it would create a conflict of interests and eventually a powder keg. Not something that weakens the ideas presented in any way, but which creates the possibility for an interesting subplot in which there is a political constituency within the empire for protectionist opposition to colonial mining enterprises.
That is an interesting idea. It could also eventually spiral into a civil war down the line, with members of the HRE rebelling against the Emperor over being disenfranchised by the New World colonies. Of course the Emperor would win the war, IV wouldn't write it any other way :p, but it could act as a catalyst for further centralisation further down the line, say in the late 1790s.
An interesting idea I'll look into, however as I've said I don't know that I want to go to 1790.
 
Oh, most definitely the Emperor wins. Although this brings to mind an important issue because this is the precise trade-off we're seeing here: to what extent does Germany's expanding colonial empire hurt the domestic economy through this type of competition? I've worried about that in ruminating over my timeline. It's one thing for the colonies to be producing plantation crops that otherwise would have to be imported from other nations' colonial empires. It's another for them to be in direct competition with key domestic enterprises. So there might be a slower process of industrialization for Germany down the line. Lots of colonies can be double-edged swords in this way.

That is an interesting idea. It could also eventually spiral into a civil war down the line, with members of the HRE rebelling against the Emperor over being disenfranchised by the New World colonies. Of course the Emperor would win the war, IV wouldn't write it any other way :p, but it could act as a catalyst for further centralisation further down the line, say in the late 1790s.
 
Your argument against having the expedition depart from Hamburg makes a lot of sense. And well, making Flanders and Holland the nexus for Germany's relationship to its colonies will certainly be interesting if there's going to be an analogue to the Eighty Years War in this timeline.

I'm also thinking that you'll have an interesting religious situation. Because if essentially Lutheranism becomes a state religion, or Lutheranism reconciles with the Catholic Church, or if there is some hybrid "Church of Germany" situation, then a lot of that subversive religious energy is going to get channelled into the Calvinists and other groups.

And interestingly enough, any of these options match Luther's tastes perfectly: he sees himself largely as a good Augustinian Catholic, and would be perfectly fine upon concluding his dispute with the Church on agreeable terms to become the voice of orthodoxy and rail against every other variant religious sect. In fact, if he were at the helm of a powerful state church, he could be downright terrifying as a historical figure.

Much to work with there.

In any case, good luck!

I'm beginning to lean more toward Columbus leaving from a Flemish/Dutch/Burgundian port, just because it would make more sense. Maximilian would be funding him with funds from his Burgundian Wife, and as they were sailing for Him, not for the HRE(when Columbus comes to Maximilian, Friedrich III is still technically Emperor, granted he is on his death bed but...), it is likely that the ships that he would have or would have built for Columbus would be in territory that he personally controlled(as the Regent for Philip), rather then territory that merely swore loyalty to him.


France will become the playground for the English, Germans, and Spanish as I have said. It may do better short term (getting a puppet Pope and then Francis elected HRE), however in the long run, it will be throughly balkanized.



An interesting idea I'll look into, however as I've said I don't know that I want to go to 1790.
 
Your argument against having the expedition depart from Hamburg makes a lot of sense. And well, making Flanders and Holland the nexus for Germany's relationship to its colonies will certainly be interesting if there's going to be an analogue to the Eighty Years War in this timeline.

I'm also thinking that you'll have an interesting religious situation. Because if essentially Lutheranism becomes a state religion, or Lutheranism reconciles with the Catholic Church, or if there is some hybrid "Church of Germany" situation, then a lot of that subversive religious energy is going to get channelled into the Calvinists and other groups.

And interestingly enough, any of these options match Luther's tastes perfectly: he sees himself largely as a good Augustinian Catholic, and would be perfectly fine upon concluding his dispute with the Church on agreeable terms to become the voice of orthodoxy and rail against every other variant religious sect. In fact, if he were at the helm of a powerful state church, he could be downright terrifying as a historical figure.

Much to work with there.

In any case, good luck!
Oh I have plans for Martin Luther, the only thing that remains to be seen is exactly where the German Church will fall, between Roman Catholicism and Full Blown Lutheranism.
 
this might have been said before but I doubt Hapsburgs would covert to Luthernism but you might see more tolerance of them and that could lead to some Church reforms thus uniting the church and stopping european holy wars
 
Anyone have an suggestions for a flag of Germania? I've been playing around with combining the Habsburg Standard with the Cross of Burgundy, but I thought I'd ask for other input.

On another unrelated note, does anyone now who long it took to build a Carrack?
 
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Anyone have an suggestions for a flag of Germania? I've been playing around with combining the Habsburg Standard with the Cross of Burgundy, but I thought I'd ask for other input.

On another unrelated note, does anyone now who long it took to build a Carrack?

Do you have already decided for a flag design? Your proposal makes sense. What about using the double eagle?
 
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