Alfonso VI dies at the battle of Sagrajas + Almoravid, a little help

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Deleted member 5719

I'm writing a timeline (Battle of Caldbeck) where I'm weakening Catholicism in Western Europe to allow a much more heterodox Christian world. As part of this I'm butterflying Alfonso VI to death in the battle of Sagrajas in 1086 (I'll probably also move the battle, Alfonso's capture of Toledo and the Almoravid invasion of Andalusia a year forward). Unfortunately I'm not a leading expert on Islamic millitary history.

Does anybody have any suggestion about what would have happened if Alfonso VI had been killed in this battle and lost Toledo to the Almoravids?

Could the Berber empire have continued longer with a fatally weakened Leon, or was it too dependent on the personalities of its founders to survive longer?

Is the possibility of a continuing Almoravid Al-Andalus and an Almohad North Africa viable?
 
Does anybody have any suggestion about what would have happened if Alfonso VI had been killed in this battle and lost Toledo to the Almoravids?
Toledo might have fallen, but Leon would have survived. Someone else would have taken the throne (unclear at this point, but maybe Henry, Count of Portugal goes to Leon instead of Portugal, and you get a Burgundian Leon a few decades earlier.

Could the Berber empire have continued longer with a fatally weakened Leon, or was it too dependent on the personalities of its founders to survive longer?
This would not fatally weaken Leon. The kingdom would have merely lost a city it had only gained several years previously. The Christians were used to that sort of thing: hit-and-run attacks had prevailed in Al-Andalus for centuries. I wouldn't consider Alfonso VI to have founded Leon, unless he traveled back in time and is also Pelayo of Asturias.

Is the possibility of a continuing Almoravid Al-Andalus and an Almohad North Africa viable?
No, that is not viable at all. Witness how quickly the Almoravids collapsed after they lost North Africa to the Almohads... one was not viable without the other.
 
Toledo might have fallen, but Leon would have survived. Someone else would have taken the throne (unclear at this point, but maybe Henry, Count of Portugal goes to Leon instead of Portugal, and you get a Burgundian Leon a few decades earlier.

Well, the heir is Urraca as IOTL, but her mother Constance of Burgundy is alive (IOTL Alfonso outlived her) and her marriage has probably not been arranged yet. With Constance as regent and a feeling that the kigdom needs a warrior king to put away the Moor (even if not entirely accurate, it was actually one of the reasons why Urraca married Alfonso the Battler of Aragon IOTL, a marriage that failed), she probably will think that giving the hand of her daughter to a Burgundian knight is the best. Et voila, Henry is at the perfect time at the perfect place, so yeah, interesting developments down the road with Leon ruled by a Capetian cadet branch and Portugal never becoming a nation. He even married a half-sister of Urraca IOTL.

This would not fatally weaken Leon. The kingdom would have merely lost a city it had only gained several years previously.
A couple of years at most, actually. However, the psychological impact will be greater and I wouldn't mind if Constance and Henry make a call to French knights. Even the Pope might endorse it as some sort of earlier crusade - yet I wouldn't vote it to be successful if the Almoravids come back to stop them.

No, that is not viable at all. Witness how quickly the Almoravids collapsed after they lost North Africa to the Almohads... one was not viable without the other.
Yep, the Almoravids fate is unrelated to their success in the Peninsula. It was the Almohad seizure of Marrakech what killed them.
 

Deleted member 5719

I'm not sure you're right in minimizing the effect of Alfonso's death RCD.

Urraca would become queen at the age of about 4, with nobody else plausible, and an almighty scramble to marry her mother.

I thought perhaps of Alvar Fanez as regent..., Urraca's marriage has plenty of time to be arranged., and he's a safe pair of Leonese hands until she's grown.

Thanks for the consensus on the return of the Taifas, I wanted it to go that way anyway.
 
Ah, Fáñez certainly deserves something better in an ATL. Great choice. Now that you mention him, I realize that Alfonso's death butterflies El Cid's exile - It would be hilarious if Rodrigo Díaz ended being remembered mostly as a secondary character in some "Cantar de Mío Alvar". :cool:
 

Deleted member 5719

Ah, Fáñez certainly deserves something better in an ATL. Great choice. Now that you mention him, I realize that Alfonso's death butterflies El Cid's exile - It would be hilarious if Rodrigo Díaz ended being remembered mostly as a secondary character in some "Cantar de Mío Alvar". :cool:

I've already rewritten bits of the cantar de mio cid (in trucha 13th century Spanish), unfortuntely. I'd love to do that, but if you've got the Cid to play with... well it's the Cid isn't it?;)
 
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