Alexander the Great

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Cockroach, Mar 7, 2005.

  1. Cockroach Lagrangian Particle Tracking... Now in the Arctic.

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    POD: 330 BC, Philotas partially manages to extricate himself from a plot against Alexander the Great (or to be more correct Alexander III of Macedon). Rather than being executed he is reassigned to command of a small fort. In OTL Philotas was tried and executed, after which his father Parmenio/Parmenion was assasinated on Alexander's orders
    327:
    -Alexander III takes Bactria and Sogdiana largely as per OTL
    -Alexander III marries Roxane.
    326:
    -Battle of Hydaspes, as in OTL a Macedonian victory
    325-323:
    -Futher campaigns in India followed by the return to Babylon.
    -Several Greek enclaves are established along the west coast of India
    -Hephaestion and 15000 men return via the coast, 2000-4000 men are lost
    322:
    -Alexander III's favoured wife Roxane gives birth to a son, named Alexander.
    -The engineer Diades of Larissa begins experiments with assorted flamible concoctions.
    -Alexander appoints his general Parmenio Satrap of Lydia.
    320:
    -Alexander III returns to Greece, calls a meeting of the Pan-Hellenic Leauge in Corinth to declear his campaign against Persia finished.
    -An attempt is made on Alexander III's life, his friend Hephaestion interposes himself between Alexander and the assasin and is killed. Demosthenes incites Athens to revolt claiming that Alexander III is dead.
    319:
    -Alexander III marches on Attica and defeats an Athenian force at Elusis.
    -Support for Peace grows drastically in Athens but Demosthenes and his supporters seize Pireaus there by controling Athen's food supply and hence controling the city itself.
    -A secret Embassy from Athens accepts peace with Alexander III.
    -Seige of Pireaus, combined Macedonian and Athenian force beseige Pireaus for four months, first use of Diades' explosive powder (launched in barrels from catapults or used to blow up walls), Demosthenes flees to Italy with 25 triremes a week before the port falls. The seige results in the loss of around a third of Athens' naval and merchant vessels leading to the final decline of Athenian power.
    -Alexander III's lesser wife Stateria (daughter of Darius) gives birth to a son named (in honour of Alexander III's murdered friend) Hephaestion
    318:
    -Demosthenes starts attempting to form a leauge of Italian and Sicilian city-states to resist Alexander III and hopefully to liberate Greece.
    -Parmenio is killed while puting down a tribal disturbance in Lydia
    315:
    -Demosthenes efforts pay off in the formation of the leauge of Syracuse
    -Diades of Larissa presents a proposal to Alexander III to make use of his explosive powder as a propellant in a primative cannon.
    -Aristotle dies of old age.
    -The historian Cleisthenes is dispatched as part of an embassy to an empire rumoured to exist east of India (i.e. China)
    -Antipater is killed while putting down a tribal uprising in Illyria.
    314:
    -Alexander III gathers a force of 60000 infantry and 10000 cavalry (including 4000 from various ex-Persian territory) in Epirus for an invasion of Italy
    -A Syracusan fleet attempt to preempt Alexander III's invasion but is destroyed in battle off Corcyra
    -Alexander III lands in southern Italy and defeats a force of 32000 leauge of Syracuse Hoplites near Taranteum, the city is taken by storm a few days later
    313:
    -Alexander III marches on Posidonia with 35000 infantry and 6000 cavalry while Seleucus advances on Neapolis with 25000 infantry and 2000 cavalry. Posidonia falls to Alexander with little trouble but Neapolis manages to resist thanks to the timely arrival of reinforcements from Syracuse.
    -A Macedonian force of 4000 infantry and 500 cavalry opperating to the north of Neapolis run into a Roman legion and are defeated.
    -Reinforcements for Alexander III of 20000 infantry and 3000 cavalry arrive in Italy late in the year.
    -Cleisthenes reaches China (at this stage in the middle of the waring states period), he estalishes contact with several of small states and starts writing a description of the land.
    312:
    -Alexander III takes 12000 infantry and 1500 cavalry to "punish the Roman barbarians", he encounters a force of 10000 Romans. The battle that follows is inconclusive, Alexander holds the field but takes heavy losses. Amoungst the captured Romans is the Consul who was commanding the army. Alexander III compliments the Consul on the way in which the Roman troops were handled and then offers a peace deal, return of the prisoners and dead and an offer of an alliance (with the added incentive of a gift of 50 talents of gold). The peace offer is rapidly accepted but the alliance still had to be approved.
    -Alexander III returns to beseige Neapolis which falls after three months.
    -A Macedonian force of 18000 infantry under Seleucus and a fleet of 14 Quinqueremes and 63 Triremes under Nearchus lands in Sicily. The landing is sucessful and the army advances rapidly but with the defeat of the fleet by 93 Triremes from Syracuse
    the army is forced to retreat, 6000 infantry are left as a garison while 12000 withdraw to Italy.
    -Cleisthenes hires a Junk and sails for Egypt via Malaysia and India, Cleisthenes purchases a cargo of Silk and Spices.
    -Diades of Larissa start constructing cannons for Alexander III
    310:
    -Cleisthenes reaches Egypt and proceeds onto Italy to present Alexander III with a number of gifts from the various Chinese states including a number of Crossbows and a large volume of Spices and Silk
    -The Macedonian garison on Sicily is overwhelmed, 4000 men are killed in battle and half of the survivors are executed.
    -Alexander III attacks Heraclea. Amoungst the seige engines used are 10 cannon recently developed by Diades of Larissa (note: these cannons are roughly equivelent in design as those employed in the 14th and 15th centuries in OTL i.e. the vast majority consist of iron staves arranged in a circular patter and held togeather by hoops of bronze or iron). After four weeks of bombardment a breach is opened in the wall and the city is taken by storm.
    -A small Macedonian force escorting three cannons and a supply of gunpowder and shot are attacked near Sybaris. The three cannons and several gunners are captured.
    -Impressed with the performance of his cannons Alexander III orders a trio of massive cast bronze guns (think seige of Constantinople 1453 kind of big guns)
    309:
    -Production of cannon starts in Syracuse, by the end of the year a total of 13 have been built.
    -Alexander III beseiges Sybaris. Thanks to the three guns captured off the Macedonians the year before Alexander III is unable to launch an all out assult despite creating a breach in the city wall and is forced to withdraw after four months.
    -The Leauge of Syracuse requests a truce with Alexander III. Alexander III makes it clear that he is prepeared to accept a truce or indeed peace if Demosthenes is turned over him, the Leauge of Syracuse accepts.
    -The Leauge of Syracuse starts reforming its army in the Macedonian fashion, this is by no means complete when the war restarts.
    308:
    -Alexander III meets Demosthenes, rather than executing him Alexander III decides to exile Demosthenes to the far east of his empire.
    -Alexander III returns to Macedon with the vast majority of his army.
    307:
    -Demosthenes dies of old age in the city of Susa.
    -The trio of bronze cannons ordered in 310 are delivered to Alexander with the addition of a pair of mortars
    -The Leauge of Syracuse attacks Macedonian garisons in Italy, Alexander III responds by gathering a force of 45000 infantry and 6000 cavalry and sailing for Italy.
    -Rome finally signs an alliance with Macedon.
    -Alexander III's eldest son (also called Alexander) is appointed as Satrap of Egypt, althought in practice very little of the government of Egypt is placed in his hands.
    306:
    -Alexander III receives reinforcements of 34000 infantry and 3000 cavalry
    -Alexander III meets a Leauge of Syracuse force of 46000 Hoplites (but very few cavalry) near Taranteum. Alexander occupies some high ground and his seige train pours destruction down on the approaching Hoplites. Over 30000 Leauge of Syracuse Hoplites are killed or captured.
    -The vast majority of the Greek cities of southern Italy capitulate due to lacking any catapults etc.
    305:
    -Alexander III beseiges Sybaris. Sybaris is defended by a battery of 9 guns while Alexander's seige equipment includes 15 iron cannon, three massive bronze cannon and two bronze motars. The city is beseiged for 6 months before surrendering.
    -Alexander III gathers a fleet for the invasion of Sicily
    304:
    -Alexander lands in Sicily with 33000 infantry and 5000 cavalry.
    -Alexander III's eldest son (also called Alexander) is recalled from Egypt and takes command of the 1500 Bactrian cavalry in Sicily.
    -Battle of Segesta. Alexander III with 35000 infantry (including 3000 Romans) and 5500 cavalry faces a Leauge of Syracuse force of 30000 infantry, 7000 Mercenary Phalangites and 2500 cavalry. Alexander victorious but 22000 enemy infantry escape.
    303:
    -Battle of Leontini, Alexander III routs a force of 11000 infantry.
    -Battle of Catania, Alexander III takes a force of 10000 infantry and 3000 cavlry against a Leauge of Syracuse force of 11000 infantry and 2000 cavalry. Alexander is sevearly wounded.
    -Seige of Syracuse, launched late in the year. Alexander is unable to personally lead due to his wounds.
    302:
    -Alexander III dies near Syracuse, his son Alexander IV ascends to the throne.
    -Battle of Syracuse, Alexander IV attempts an all out assult which fails.
    -With unrest increasing in other parts of his empire Alexander IV is forced to conclude a peace treaty with Syracuse which involves paying compensation of 2000 talents of gold and removing all forces in Sicily.
    -Alexander IV sails for Asia to put down a rebellion in Phoenicia.
    301:
    -Alexander of Lyncestis leads a revolt of the old Macedonian nobility and has himself proclaimed king of Macedon.
    -Alexander IV has Hephaestion arrested to avoid him becoming another would be usurper.
    -Hephaestion escapes and has himself proclaimed king of Persia under the name Cyrus III
    300:
    -Hephaestion I leads 15000 Persian Infantry (including 2500 heavy infantry) and 7000 cavalry towards Mesopotamia, he meets an Alexandrian force of 8500 Infantry and 3000 cavalry under Ptolemy. The Persian heavy infantry is routed and almost completely destroyed but Ptolemy loses aproximatly 1000 of his cavalry.
    -Cassander leads a Macedonian army of 16000 infantry and 3000 cavalry to drive Alexandrian forces out of south west Asia-Minor. He is initally very sucessful, defeating a force of 13000 infantry, 1200 cavalry and 60 Elephants under Perdiccas near the Cilician Gates (Perdiccas, 4200 infantry and 400 cavalry escaped). However while advancing into Phoenicia via the Syrian Gates Cassander is ambushed by Alexander IV with 5100 infantry and is attacked from behind by Perdiccas and 4200 infantry. 2000 infantry and 1300 cavalry manage to hack their way out throught Perdiccas' lines but the rest of the Macedonian army is lost and Cassander killed.
    299:
    -Alexander of Lyncestis leads a force of 21000 infantry and 4000 cavalry into Mesopotamia, he defeats a force of 14000 infantry and 4000 cavalry under Ptolemy near Carrhae before marching towards the coast. Alexander IV manages to gather a force of 24000 infantry and 2800 cavalry and meets Amyntas IV on the Euphrates. The resulting battle is inconclusive, both sides loose around 4000 men each. With news of a revolt brewing in Greece and a Persian army gathering near Susa Alexander IV and Amyntas IV agree to a truce.
    -Alexander IV marches on Susa, overwhelms the city and slaughters the Persian army of 15000 men gathered their... only to discover that the army at Susa was a mere decoy to the massive army being gathered by Hephaestion I at Ecbatana.
    -Hephaestion I advances into Mesopotamia with 58000 infantry (12000 Phalangites, 6000 Immortals and 40000 others) and 12000 cavalry. Perdiccas with 14000 infantry and 2000 cavalry attempts to intercept Hephaestion I's army but after a number of skirmishes are forced to retreat to Babylon.
    298:
    -Seige and Battle of Babylon. Hephaestion I with 58000 infantry and 12000 cavalry beseige Perdiccas with 14000 infantry and 2000 cavalry in Babylon for two months before being forced to retreat due to Alexander IV with 23000 infantry and 3100 cavalry advancing from the south and Seleucus with 12000 infantry and 1000 cavalry advancing from the north. However the retreat comes too late and the Persians are soon intercepted by Alexander IV. The Persians beat off Alexander IV's inital attacks causing heavy losses but with arrival of Seleucus and Perdiccas the Persians are surroundered and in the Persian tradition Hephaestion I flees the battle leaving his army to be destroyed.
    -Large scale revolt in Greece and the Greek cities of Asia-Minor, staired up by the Leauge of Syracuse. The rebellion in Greece ends with the rout of 26000 Hoplites by a Macedonian force of 18000 infantry and 3000 cavalry under Philotas near Corinth.
    297:
    -Campaign by Alexander of Lyncestis and Lysimachus is Asia-Minor, one by one the major Greek cities are beseiged and retaken or conviced to side with Amyntas IV in return for their liberty.
    -Alexander IV advances into Persia, he reoccupies Susa and advances on Pasargadae.
    -Battle of Persepolis, near the burnt ruins of the former Persian capital an Alexandrian army of 9000 infantry and 2000 cavalry under Perdiccas are taken by suprise by 12000 Persian infantry and 5000 cavalry under Hephaestion I. Perdiccas' army is destroyed and Perdiccas himself is wounded and captured by Hephaestion I. Perdiccas is imprisoned in Ecbatana.
    -Philotas sails for the Chersonesus Taurica (Crimea) with 17000 infantry and 2000 cavalry to bring the cities there under Macedonian control.
    296:
    -Cyprus revolts against Alexander IV and starts stirring up revolts along the coast with some sucess. The ports of Tyre, Sidon and Acre soon revolt. With news of the revolt Alexander IV signs a treaty with Hephaestion I establishing a buffer state between their empires. This buffer state stretches from the Tigris river to the Zargos mountains and is ruled from Susa by Craterus.
    -Philotas besieges the Greek cities in the Crimea and by years end has established Macedonian control over the peninsula.
    -Alexander IV marches to the coast and beseiges Sidon which falls after a five month seige.
    -Alexander IV orders construction of six gun armed ships for the forthcoming seige of Tyre. Four of the ships boast three medium calibre iron guns (i.e. aproximatly similar to OTLs Demi-Cannon, firing a ball of 32 pounds/ 14.4 kg) while the remaining two are armed with a single large bronze cannon each.
    295:
    -Carthage dispatches a fleet of 21 Quinqueremes and 89 Triremes to support Tyre. The Carthaginian fleet is intercepted and destroyed by an Alexandrian fleet of 17 conventional Quinqueremes, 6 cannon armed Quinqueremes (one cannon similar to the 16th century Cannon-Royal (i.e. firing a ball of about 68 pounds/ 30.6 kg) plus anywhere from 2 to 6 swivel guns similar to the 16th century Robinet (i.e. firing a 0.5 pound/ 0.225 kg)) and 79 Triremes.
    -Second Seige of Tyre, after four months of bombardment the city is taken by storm and all its population put to the sword.
    -Acre surrenders to Alexander IV in order to avoid the fate of Tyre.

    Edit to attatch map of Europe and near east in 295 BC
    Orange=Carthage
    Red=Rome
    Dark Green=Macedon and dependent allies
    Light Green=Independent Macedonian allies
    Brown=Alexandrian Empire and dependent allies
    Yellow=Independent Alexandrian allies
    Purple=Persia
    Blue=Leauge of Syracuse

    Euro 300s.GIF
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2005
    mcg1233 likes this.
  2. MerryPrankster Well-Known Member

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    Pretty cool TL.
     
  3. Cockroach Lagrangian Particle Tracking... Now in the Arctic.

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    Thanks, I wrote this up over my summer holidays. Now I am just wondering where to go from here...
    A general outline of possible events:
    -Development of Lateen sails, probably by Carthage and/or its colonies...
    -Destruction of Carthage within 50 year at the hands of the Alexandrian Empire, refugees fleeing and setting themselves up in either gaul or somewhere south of the Sahara... with this colony eventually leading in the discovery of America
    -War or treaty between Macedon and Rome resulting in Rome gaining control of all of Italy within the next decade...

    Also a little note, in the TL there are several refrances to "Amyntas IV" these should read "Alexander of Lyncestis" but I failed to locate and correct these prior to posting.
     
  4. Historico Member

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    Nov 23, 2004
    Interesting TL, you got here Cockroach..I have a few Questions.


    1. With the discover of China...Has Macedon recieved the Priniting press yet?

    2. Is it possible we might see an Syracusan dominated Italy?

    3.Has Alexander and his successors been able to unite the Hellenic and Persian cultures?
     
  5. Cockroach Lagrangian Particle Tracking... Now in the Arctic.

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    1. Contact with China has been made but no firm links have yet been established. Sooner rather than later we will see printing arrive but not for awhile yet.

    2. Well probably not, Syracuse may control all of Sicily (thanks to Alexander IV's peace treaty) but it has quite litrally been bled white... Althought during the upcoming war between Rome and Macedon it is quite likely that Syracuse will attempt to liberate some of the Greek cities in Italy.

    3. Not really. Both have aquired various skill, abilities and tactics off each other but you have got to remeber that between 320 and 302 Alexander has been campaigning back in Europe... and the empire had disintegrated into three part with in a few years of his death.

    Just to clarify some of the points here are some additional notes I wrote up reguarding the major players at this time:

    Argead Wars (note: In OTL Argead is the name of the royal dynasty of Macedon that reigned until the demise of Alexander the Great)
    The Major Powers:

    Alexandrian Empire:
    Ruled by Alexander IV.
    Chief Loyalists: Ptolemy, Perdiccas, Seleucus
    Stretching from Egypt to the Zagros Mountains in the East and as far north on the Coast as Issus.
    Having lost his major European recruiting grounds and most of the Hetairoi (by defection) to Alexander of Lyncestis, Alexander IV had to open his army to the "barbarians" within his empire, in turn allowing Alexander IV to muster armies much larger than his any of father's armies. Alexander IV's army remains highly progressive in tactics and technology.

    Macedon:
    Ruled by Alexander of Lyncestis.
    Chief Loyalists: Philotas, Cassander, Lysimachus
    Comprises all Macedonian European territory and the vast majority of Asia-Minor.
    Controlling all of Greece, most of Asia Minor and (nominally) Southern Italy Macedon is able to muster a considrable army of well trained Hoplites and Phalangites in addition to the Hetairoi heavy cavalry. The Macedonian army is less technologically or tactically progressive as Alexander IV's army.

    Persia:
    Ruled by Hephaestion I/Cyrus III (to Greeks/to Persians)
    Chief Loyalists: Antigonus, assorted Persian nobles
    Stretches from the Zargos Mountains to the western edge of the Hindu-Khush, Northern boarder marked by the Oxus rariver and Araxes River.
    While it's cavalry had long been effective Persia had historically had little tradition of heavy infantry and other than the Persians trained by Alexander III Hephaestion I had to start from scratch. With Persia's archery it is unsurpising that Hephaestion I attempted to integrate Archers into the Phalanx by replacing around 50% of the Phalangites or Hoplites with archers. While in battle the archers did provide an added punch at range, when the Phalanx engaged in close combat with another Phalanx it was found that the reduction in the number of Phalangites critically weakened the Phalanx.

    "Minor" Powers:
    "India":
    Ruled by Porus
    In the chaos in the wake of Alexander III's death Porus took the opportunity to establish his control over the entire Indus valley. Later Porus offered his loyalty to Alexander IV

    Sogdiana:
    Ruled by Oxyartes
    Boarders marked by the Oxus River, Jaxartes River and the Eastern edge of the Hindu-Khush
    Ruled by Alexander IV's grandfather this Satrapy remained loyal despite being cut off until Porus reaffirmed his loyalty to Alexander IV. Eventually overrun by Persia (278)

    Leauge of Syracuse:
    Now entirely restricted to Sicily, occasionally fermented revolts in Greece and Asia-Minor.

    Rome:
    Stayed out of the conflict until tensions in southern Italy led to war with Macedon (289).

    Carthage:
    Initally neutral but conflicts developed with the Alexandrian Empire following the revolt of Tyre (296)
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2005
  6. Cockroach Lagrangian Particle Tracking... Now in the Arctic.

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    Another map, this showing more details of the eastern part of Alexander's empire and the various regions controlled by the assorted sucessors

    empire.gif
     
  7. Cockroach Lagrangian Particle Tracking... Now in the Arctic.

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    And a bit of an update:
    293:
    -Alexander IV dispatches a fleet of 14 cannon armed Quinqueremes and 55 Triremes and army of 15000 infantry and 3000 cavalry under Seleucus to punnish Carthage. Carthage is bombarded and several Cartheginian occupied islands are taken. The expedition takes a turn for the worst when Seleucus is killed while attempting to take a Punnic colony.
    -Alexander of Lyncestis grants control of the Crimea to Philotas in recognition of his loyalty.
    -Perdiccas escapes from Ecbatana and returns to the Alexandrian Empire. However upon discovering that Alexander IV is unwilling to avenge his imprisonment Perdiccas departs for Sicily.
    -The alliance between Macedon and Rome expires.
    291:
    -Alexander of Lyncestis increases the size of the macedonian garison in southern Italy.
    -Perdiccas joins the military establishment of the Leauge of Syracuse. Perdicass sets about developing tactics for the use of the cross-bow.
    -The city of Neapolis rebels against Macedon. With Syracuse unable to send much aid the city turns to the only other regional power, Rome. Rome dispatches 5000 troops to defend the city.
    -Alexander of Lyncestis starts gathering an army to send to Italy to supress the revolt in Neaopolis.
    -Alexander IV lands with an army of 27000 infantry and 4000 cavalry near Carthage. This army defeats a Carthaginain army of 26000 infantry and 2000 cavalry. Carthage sues for peace. As part of the peace treaty a large number of the punnic nobility (including almost all of the Barca clan) are sent into exile and approximatly half of the Carthaginian fleet is surredndered to Alexander IV.
    290:
    -Alexander of Lyncestis lands in Italy with 25000 infantry, 3500 cavalry and 35 elephants. Amoungst his army are his two sons Attalus and Achilles as well as King Pyrrhus of Epirus. The army establishes camp to the south of Neapolis while waiting for reinforcements.
    -Hephaestion I starts gathering an army to retake Sogdiana.
    -Porus and Alexander IV establish an alliance.
    289:
    -The Macedonian army encamped to the south of Neapolis has swelled to 39000 infantry, 5600 cavalry and 45 elephants.
    -Alexander of Lyncestis issues an ultimatum to Rome: Withdraw your forces from Neapolis or its war. Needless to say the Romans reject the ultimatum. Alexander of Lyncestis leaves his son Attalus with 10000 infantry to beseige Neapolis while he advances on Rome with the rest of the army.
    -Battle of the Volturno. 10000 Romans face Alexander of Lyncestis, 28000 infantry and 4700 cavalry. The Romans fight well but are overwhelmed and defeated but not before sending 5600 Macedonians wto their deaths.
    288:
    -Neapolis falls to the Macedonian force under Attalus.
    -Seige and Battle of Rome. Alexander of Lyncestis and 24000 Infantry and 3100 Cavalry beseige Rome (garisoned by 21000 infantry). Towards the end of the year the walls are breached and Alexander of Lyncestis launches an all out assult. The assult fails and Alexander of Lyncestis is wounded with a Pilum. The Macedonians retreat and Alexander of Lyncestis dies a few days later.
    -Battle of the Tiber. The Macedonian rear-guard of 5000 infantry and 700 cavalry under Pyrrhus of Epirus are attacked by 9000 Romans. With the exception of Pyrrhus of Epirus, the cavalry and 500 infantry who managed to cut their way out the Macedonian rear-guard is massacured.
    -A Leauge of Syracuse army of 13000 Hoplites and Phalangites, 2000 cavalry and 800 Crossbowmen cross from Sicily to Italy. The city of Rhegium opens its gate to the army.
    286:
    -Hephaestion I gathers an army of 67000 infantry and 7000 cavalry for an attack upon Sogdiana.
    -Battle of Paestum. Achilles leads a Macedonian force of 16000 infantry and 300 cavalry to intercept the army of the League of Syracuse. First use of crossbows in battle in the west. The Leauge of Syracuse is defeated but withdraws in good order.
    -Attalus and Pyrrhus of Epirus flee Neapolis ahead of an advancing Roman army of 18000.
    285:
    -Perdicass returns to Alexandria. His supporters seize the Palace and "persuade" Alexander IV to declear war on Persia
    -Attalus and Pyrrhus of Epirus depart Italy for Macedon.
    284:
    -Alexander IV with 30000 infantry and 4000 cavalry; Perdiccas with 22000 infantry and 3000 cavalry and Ptolemy with 10000 infantry and 900 cavalry advance into Persia taking Hephaestion I completely by suprise. The buffer state under Craterus has little choice but to go along with the Alexandrian Empire.
    -Achilles and 15000 Macedonian infantry are beseiged in Tarentum by a combined Leauge of Syracuse-Roman army. After four months Achilles surrenders, in exchange for his freedom he renounces Macedon's claim to southern Italy.
    283:
    -Perdiccas takes and sacks the city of Ecbatana. Hephaestion I's young son Hector/Darius is captured.
    -Battle of the Caspian Gates. A Macedonian army of 53000 infantry and 6000 cavalry under Alexander IV and Perdiccas engage a Persian army of 71000 infatry and 10000 cavalry under Hephaestion I. The Persians are routed but Perdiccas leads an ill-advised cavalry charge into Hephaestion I's bodyguard. According to legends about the battle both Perdicass and Hephaestion were found dead, Hephaestion I impaled on Perdicass'lance and Perdicass shot by Hephaestion I with an arrow. This battle is usually reguarded as the start of the end of the Persian empire althought Hector I/Darius IV was appointed the king of Persia by Alexander IV.
    -Achillies arrives in Macedon. An assasination attempt is made on him but he escapes and flees to the Crimea.

    And to avoid any pointless Questions:
    1. What next?
    Well civil war in Macedon and possibly war between Syracuse and Rome.

    2. What will happen to Hector I/Darius IV?
    Well he is still quite young (I haven't yet decided how old but somewhere between 5 and 10) so I dare say he will be taken to Alexandria and experiance an intensive program of hellenisation. Probably when he turn 15 or 16 he will join Alexander IV on a few campaigns and after that return to Persia. He probably won't get up to much until Alexander IV dies... but then expect a last flash of Persian glory.
     
  8. Adamanteus Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2004
    I thought the timeline was cool, but assumes a lot of implausible things.

    I'm assuming Alexander III survives his OTL death in 323 BC by avoiding malaria, which is the going theory for that.

    I have a hard time believing that Demosthenes would be able to gather support for an anti-Macedonian league in Sicily or Italy. The Sicilians were really more concerned about Carthaginian imperialist ambitions and are unlikely to see Alexander as a threat. Meanwhile, the Greeks of southern Italy were too busy with the Romans. In fact, I think that by 300 BC, they were no longer independent for the most part.

    There was no such guy as Diades of Larissa. I assume you invented him out of thin air. I don't really see such a figure emerging at this time. Maybe 100 years later, with Archimedes, but not then.

    The Chinese mission is also rather amusing. China was not known to the West until about Roman times, although it may've been heard of, from traders in Persia or India. Also, the arrival of any foreign mission in any part of China would've completely altered the course of the Warring States period entirely.

    The rest is just amusing invention stuff.
     
  9. Cockroach Lagrangian Particle Tracking... Now in the Arctic.

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    Thanks, but I do wish to address some of the "implausible things":
    Thanks for the point, but notice that this timeline diverges from reality in 330 BC, I would think that may allow sufficient leeway for Alexander to arrive in Babylon at a different time of year or for the stinking mud puddle from which the particular mosquito responsible for giving him malaria came to have dried up.
    Okay, so Demosthenes finding support in Sicily is likely a very large stretch, but I wanted an excuse for Alexander to go west. True the Greeks in Italy were under pressure from Rome by this stage but you are incorrect about them having lost the independance, that actually happened after Pyrrhus of Epirus was defeated in 275 BC.
    I had thought I had heard the name somewhere refering to one of Alexander's engineers, but I may be wrong. And yes even if he did exist I probably did make him be somewhat more brilliant than in reality.
    True, I don't actually have that much knowlage about China in that era so I just have not bothers thinking about the changes. As for the issue of establishing contact I specifically stated: "The historian Cleisthenes is dispatched as part of an embassy to an empire rumoured to exist east of India"... I think that safely indicates that the Greek heard tales about it while in Persia and India.
     
  10. Cockroach Lagrangian Particle Tracking... Now in the Arctic.

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    Another update:
    281:
    -Achillies starts recruiting an army to overthrow Attalus.
    -Alexander IV sails around Arabia with 9000 men. A number of costal cities are captured or become vassel states.
    -Ptolemy finishes writing his accout of the campaigns of Alexander III and starts work on the campaigns of Alexander IV. While reading Cleisthenes' description of China Ptolemy comes across mention of the use of carved wooded blocks being used to print and strikes upon an idea. Ptolemy's account of Alexander III's campaigns becomes the first printed book in the western world.
    280:
    -Achillies and Philotas with 9500 infantry and 700 cavalry land in Attica. Athens rebels against Attalus and provides Achillies with an additional 3000 hoplites, other cities soon do likewise. Achillies marches north with an army of 14000 infantry and 1000 cavalry.
    -Attalus rapidly gathers an army of 12000 infantry and 2000 cavalry and orders the raising of more troops before he marches south to meet Achillies.
    Alexander IV takes advantage of the chaos in Macedon to extend his control futher into Asia-Minor. By years end the Alexandrian Empire has captured the regions of Cappadocia, Cilicia and Pisidia aswell as the islands of Cyprus and Rhodes.
    -Ptolemy dies, his work on the campaigns of Alexander IV is unfinished.
    279:
    -The armies of Achillies and Attalus meet in battle near the city of Larissa. Attalus is defeated and flees to Epirus, the remenants of his army defect to Achillies.
    -Achillies captures the Macedonian capital Pella and has himself proclaimed king.
    278:
    -Attalus refuses to relinquish his claim to the throne of Macedon, being unmarried he appoints his chief support, king Pyrrhus of Epirus his heir. Shortly afterwards Attalus is assasinated and Pyrrhus of Epirus proclaims himself king of Macedon.
    -Philotas dies of old age in the city of Pella.
    277:
    -Achillies with an army of 23000 infantry and 3000 cavalry advances into Epirus, Pyrrhus of Epirus meets them with an army of 20000 infantry and 1000 cavalry near the city of Dodona. Pyrrhus' army is utterly defeated and Pyrrhus of Epirus is captured and executed. Epirus is integrated into Macedon.
    -Tensions between the Leauge of Syracuse and Rome rise primerally over the issue of control of Neapolis.
    275:
    -Alexander IV leads an army of 51000 infantry and 6000 cavalry including his son Philip and Hector I of Persia on another campaign in Asia Minor. One by one the cities of Ionia fall to Alexander IV.
    -Achillies gathers an army to expel Alexander IV from Ionia.
    274:
    -Battle of Illium. Alexander IV with an army of 35000 infantry and 4500 cavalry meets Achillies with an army of 33000 infantry and 5200 cavalry. The battle is inconclusive, Alexander IV suffers very high losses but Achillies is forced to retreat.
    -War breaks out between the Leauge of Syracuse and Rome. Rome rapidly captures Neapolis.
    273:
    -Truce between Alexander IV and Achillies. The Alexandrian Empire controls all of Asia-Minor.
    -Alexander IV lets Hector I of Persia return to Persia.
    -The cities of Tarentum, Locri and Rhegium are beseiged by Rome.
    271:
    -The cities of Tarentum and Locri fall to Roman forces. The Leauge of Syracuses' power in Italy is irrevesibly broken.
    -Alexander IV starts gathering an army to invade Greece.
    269:
    -Alexander IV launches an invasion of Greece. Alexander IV sails with 20000 infantry and 2000 cavalry directly for Pella while Philip and an army of 38000 infantry and 5000 cavalry cross the Hellespont.
    -Alexander IV's fleet of 45 Quinqueremes, 55 Triremes and numerous transports is attacked off the Chalcidies by a Macedonian fleet of 39 Quinqueremes and 62 Triremes. Alexander IV's fleet is completely destroyed and Alexander IV is amoungst the dead.
     
  11. Faeelin Lord of Ten Thousand Years

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2004
    Interesting, but the powder seems too fast; and the Chinese are just getting paper at this point, in OTL. i'd be leery of giving htem printing, which wans't invented for centuries.
     
  12. Duncan random wandering idiot

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2004
    But there is Alexander's engineer Diades of Pella, "the man who took Tyre with Alexander" - http://www.tmth.edu.gr/en/aet/5/37.html

    He trained under Polyides (or Polyidos?), who was a Thessalian, hence conceivably the "Larissa" link in Cockroach's subconscious.
     
  13. Cockroach Lagrangian Particle Tracking... Now in the Arctic.

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2004
    Location:
    Paris, France (ex Hobart, Australia)
    Yeah, I probably did rush into gunpowder a little too fast. As for priniting I would remind you that the form of printing being used relys on having the thing in question carved into a wooden block (a form of prinitng developed in China), and so is somewhat less practicle than OTLs western developed movable font, but once printing gets up and running it will provide a good excuse for some social upheaval.
     
  14. Historico Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2004
    I think the gun powder plot will spice things up alittle bit for the Alexaderian Empire. An Industrial Revolution based in Alexandria would be great I mean...Let's look how close things are.

    1. With the Alexandrian Empire bieng in controlling Lebanaon the great forest would be decimated much earlier and they could use coal from Britanny as an alternate heating Scource.

    2. You will need an massive plauge to kill off most of the countries dependencies on Slaves for the Steam Engines.

    3. 1898, a peculiar six-inch wooden object was found in a tomb at Saqquara, Egypt that dated back to about 200 BCE. The object had a body or fuselage, seven-inch wings that curved downward slightly, a fixed rudder and a tail. It looked very much like a modern airplane or glider. But since airplanes had not yet been invented in 1898 (never mind ancient Egypt), it was labeled as a model of bird and stored away in the basement of the Cairo museum.

    The object was rediscovered many years later by Dr. Khalil Messiha, an authority on ancient models. According to Messiha and others who have studied the object, it has characteristics of very advanced aerodynamics, much like modern pusher-gliders that require very little power to stay aloft. The curved wings are today known as reversedihedral wings, which can attain great amounts of lift. A similar design is employed on the supersonic Concorde aircraft.

    The 15 February 1998 issue of The Augusta Chronicle featured an article by Randall Floyd titled "Flight may have begun before Wrights:"


    In 1969, while sorting through a box of old exhibits in the basement of the Cairo museum, Egyptologist Khalil Messiha found what appeared to be a 2,200-year-old model airplane, complete with wings, landing gear and an aerodynamically designed body.

    The object had been found in a 2,000-year-old tomb near Saqqara in 1898. The archaeologist was stunned. What would a perfectly scaled model of an airplane be doing in a tomb of such antiquity?

    His conclusion: "Apparently the ancients possessed long-forgotten technologies," he said. Egypt's Ministry of Culture agreed. A committee set up to investigate the matter concluded that the 7-inch-long model, built of light sycamore wood and weighing only 1.11 ounces, seemed to incorporate principles of aircraft design that had taken modern engineers decades of experimentation to discover and perfect.

    Moreover, they found, the glider worked. More than two millennia after its construction, it still sailed easily through the air at only the slightest flick of the hand. So this could be further devolped untill the Alexandrians developed an proper power scource.


    4. The Ancient Minoans had Factories in that they brought all the proccess steps together in one place [ i.e. cleaning carding spinning Weaving] but it was all hand powered. TTL Creteans could pick up on the old methods an introduced using the effectivness of the Printing Press

    5. the Babylonians did apparently have crude batteries around 200 BC, consisting of copper wires suspended in a saline solution which produced a very small (0.87 volt) current. But they were EXTREMELY limited in the power they could produce...they were okay for electroplating. With the Alexandrian Patrons this idea could be pursued to something similar to the Voltaic pile...alternate layers of copper and some and Zinc, separated from each other by pieces of cloth, with the whole covered by a saline solution (sea water?). However, once again, this is going to produce a very low voltage...but using Iron from Anatolia could convert it into high powered Magnets.

    6. It would be Interesting to see The Alexandrian Oiekumene(Empire) get involved with The great Libyan mathematician Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the earth to almost the exact amount and proposed to prove his theories with a great expedition where Libyan ships set out in opposite directions, with the hope of meeting somewhere in the middle. Scholars believe these expeditions settled the Polynesian islands . Maori legends include two legendary heroes named Maui and Rata who names also appear as members of a Libyan exploratory expedition. The Polynesian language contains similarities to North African and Libyan Greek. Similarly, inscriptions have been found in California, New Mexico, Texas, Iowa, Nevada which seem to indicate a landfall by the westbound Libyan explorers.

    Overall I must say the possibilites are endless with your Alexandrian Empire...Keep it comming
     
  15. Hierophant The Unyielding

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2004
    Location:
    Oregon
    Yes, keep it coming.

    Im sure someone from another TL would assume that our timeline was very implausible, so the implausible is okay to an extent.
     
  16. Cockroach Lagrangian Particle Tracking... Now in the Arctic.

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2004
    Location:
    Paris, France (ex Hobart, Australia)
    Sorry no industrial revolution in the immediate future. As for shipping coal from northern Europe I don't think it will be quite as practicle as you seem to think... but maybe when I get round to whiping Carthage off the face of the Earth the survivors will flee in that direction.
     
  17. Cockroach Lagrangian Particle Tracking... Now in the Arctic.

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2004
    Location:
    Paris, France (ex Hobart, Australia)
    Latest update, Carthage has had it:
    268:
    -Alexander IV's son Philip III is proclaimed king of the Alexandrian Empire.
    -Philip III with an army of 36000 infantry and 3700 cavalry meets a macedonian army of 31000 infantry and 4000 cavalry under Achillies near the Maritsa river (a river forming the boarder between Greece and Turkey). The battle is a macedonian victory but Philip III's army withdraws in good order. At the same time a small raiding party from the Alexandrian empire lands in Macedon and loots Pella before marching on Aigae and exhuming the remains of Alexander III and Philip II. The raiding party soon withdraws.
    -Hector I of Persia launches a campaign against Sogdiana.
    -The surviving Cartheginians exiles from the war with Alexander IV start filtering back to Carthage.
    267:
    -Construction of a massive mausoleum for the recently captured remains of Alexander III and Philip II begins in Alexandria on the site on the Pharos was constructed in OTL.
    -Philip III with 31000 infantry and 2700 cavalry meets a macedonian army of 29000 infantry and 3500 cavalry under Achillies' chief general Demetrius in battle near Byzantium. Philip III's army is victorious.
    -Treaty between Philip III and Achillies. Macedon renounces its claims to all of Ionia south of Illium while Macedon withdraws all forces to the south of Illium.
    -Rome starts expanding into Gaul.
    265:
    -Hector I subdues Sogdiana and starts advancing into India. Hector I defeats a force of Greek colonists and their native allies near the twin cities of Nicaea and Bucephala. Leaving an army to establish control over the Indus valley Hector I marches for the Ganges river bringing him into direct conflict with the Mauryan Empire.
    -Philip III visits the Oracle of Amon at Siwa. According to popular myth Philip III asked the oracle who was the rightful inheritor of Alexander III's empire and recieves the reply "the one who brings Alexander's generals too him", in response to this prophecy Philip III orders that the remains of Perdicass and Ptolemy be moved to Alexander the Greats tomb and that the remains of Seleucus be recovered from Tripolis (the modern region of Tripoli). In actual fact Philip III had developed his obcession with retreiving the remains of Alexander III's generals some time before his visit to Siwa.
    -First known depiction of a Lateen sail, on a mosaic showing a Carthaginian merchant vessel.
    264:
    -The mausoleum of Alexander the Great is completed, complete with extra chambers for the assorted dead generals Philip III hopes to collect.
    -Battle between Hector I of Persia and the Mauryan Empire, the battle is inconclusive and Persia and the Mauryan Empire draw up a peace treaty. To cerment the treaty Hector I marries a princess from the Mauryan Empire.
    -Hector I returns to Persia.
    -Carthage refuse to let the Alexandrian Empire's delegation retreive the remains of Seleucus from Tripoli. The issue is left to rest but a few years later becomes the excuse used by Philip III to declear war on Carthage.
    263:
    -Hector I campaigns in Armenia, estblishing a Persian presence on the Black Sea.
    -Achillies campaigns in Illyria.
    262:
    -A delegation is dispatched by Hector I to the Oracle of Delphi to ask about their king's fate, the responce is given "Should Hector cross the Hellespont, his empire is surely doomed".
    -Philip III declears war on Carthage. An Alexandrian army of 34000 infantry and 4000 cavalry under the general Eumenes marches along the North African coast while Philip III with 29000 infantry and 2000 cavalry are carried by a fleet of 65 Quinqueremes, 55 Triremes and numerous transports to Carthage.
    260:
    -Philip III beseiges Carthage with 29000 infantry and 2000 cavalry.
    -General Eumenes campaigns in Tripoli, taking and burning many a Carthaginian colony.
    -Taking advantage of Philip III's campaign in North Africa Hector I of Persia gathers an army in Armenia to take Asia-Minor.
    259:
    -Realising the end is near Carthage offers to capitulate to Philip III. Philip offers Carthage two options: leave the Mediterranian for ever within a year or the complete destruction of the Carthage and its population. Most of the population of Carthage accept.
    -In the chaos of the departure of the Carthginian population Rome manages to seize the islands of Corsica and Sardinia
    -Hector I of Persia launches his invasion of Asia-Minor, despite some initial resistance within the year all Alexandrian territory within Asia-Minor is captured or incapable of resisting.
    258:
    -Philip III heads to Syria and advances into Armenia with his army of 39000 infantry and 5000 cavalry while his Eumenes advances up the coast of Asia-Minor with an army of 32000 infantry and 3700 cavalry.
    -The expelled population of Carthage divides into three part. While two of the three factions decide to settle as close to the entrance to the Mediterranian as possible the third faction, led by members of the Barca clan settles on the Bay of Biscay.
     
  18. Hapsburg Robrotrenominator Kicked

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2005
    Location:
    The land of Grippo's and Kroger
    Rome might return and wipe the board apart. Either that or the Germans will come in and surprise Macedon and etc.

    Go Deutschland!!
     
  19. Cockroach Lagrangian Particle Tracking... Now in the Arctic.

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2004
    Location:
    Paris, France (ex Hobart, Australia)
    I plan to post another decade or so of this TL in the next few days but I have reached the point where the Alexandrian Empire and the exiled Carthaginians are developing ships suitable for Oceanic rather than Mediterranian conditions.

    Current Ideas:

    Carthaginian "Frigate"
    Hull: Based off that of a Trireme
    Propolusion: Two masts with either Lateen or Square sails, one bank of 50 oars
    Armourment: 6-10 bronze guns firing 4-6 pound shot, ram
    Crew: 110 men (50 oarsmen/general crew, 30 sailors, 10 gunners, 15 marines, 5 officers)
    Comments: short ranged.

    Alexandrian "Indymen"
    Similar to the ship described at:http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Syracusia.htm
    Propolusion: One Square sail, one sprit sail, one Lateen sail
    Armournment: 12-16 bronze guns firing 10-15 pound shot, numerous swievel guns.

    Again I ask, can anyone suggest suitable 'ancient' names for these vessels?
     
  20. Cockroach Lagrangian Particle Tracking... Now in the Arctic.

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2004
    Location:
    Paris, France (ex Hobart, Australia)
    Ok a bit of an update:

    258:
    -Philip III advances up the coast of Asia-Minor with his army of 39000 infantry and 5000 cavalry while his general Eumenes advances into Armenia with an army of 32000 infantry and 3700 cavalry.
    -The majority of the recently expelled population of Carthage settles on the south-west coast of the Iberian Peninsula and on the Atlantic coast of North Africa. Around 5000 Carthaginians under Hamilcar Barca sail north along the coast of Iberia and after a number of failed attempts to found a colony on the Iberian coast establish themselves on the coast of Gaul near the OTL city of Bordeaux.
    257:
    -Eumenes and his army are ambushed and destroyed in Armenia by 21000 Persians.
    -Achillies sails to Sicily with an army of 27000 infantry and 5000 cavalry. After recieving intelligence of a large build up of Syracusan troops near his intended beach head Achillies diverts his attention to a number of small islands to the south of Sicily. Achillies manages to seize the Alexandrian occupied island of Pantelleria and the island of Malta. Achilies then continues onto Cyrenaica where he "liberates" the cities of Cyrene and Berenice.
    -Philip III with 41000 infantry and 6000 cavalry meets an army of 65000 infantry and 8000 cavalry under Hector I near the city of Aspendus. The Alexandrian army suffers a humiliating defeat. Philip III is forced to flee aboard a trireme, and after a particularly violent storm to land on Cyprus, where Philip III is detained on the orders of Achillies.
    256:
    -Hector I occupies Syria and Mesopotamia before marching on Egypt. After a number of minor battles against Alexandrian armies under Philip III's 15 year old sons Amyntas and Lagos, Hector's army reaches the Nile only to find all fords and bridges heavily guarded and a large number of Alexandrian light warships patrolling the river (primerally pentaconters armed with one 9 pounder gun and 4 swivel guns). After a number of attempts at crossing the Nile fail Hector I decides to march back North and attempt to cross the Helespont and invade Greece.
    -First hand gun developed in Greece. Due to the lack of ablity to cast iron or steel of sufficiently consistant quality these early muskets are extreamly expensive and unreliable.
    255:
    -Hector I readies his army to cross the Hellespont.
    -Amyntas begins reoccupying Syria.
    254:
    -Hector I attempts to cross the Hellespont with an army of 74000 infantry and 13000 cavalry by a pontoon bridge. When Hector has only 23000 infantry and 3000 cavalry across a macedonian fleet attacks and destroys the bridge. Hector marches inland with the 23000 infantry and 3000 cavalry only to be defeated by an equivelant Macedonian army under Achillies' son Lamachus. Hector is forced to retreat back across the Hellespont.
    -Realising that his own army will not be able to stand up to the remaining Perisan forces Achillies releases Philip III on the conditions that he raises an army to help defeat Hector and that the Alexandrian Empire renounces it's claims to Macedon, Greece and Asia-Minor.
    253:
    -Achillies gathers an army of 26000 infantry and 6000 cavalry in Northern Asia-Minor.
    -Philip III gathers an army of 34000 infantry and 4000 cavalry in southern Syria.
    -With Achillies of Macedon advacing throught Asia-Minor and Philip III advancing up throught Syria Hector I with 63000 infantry and 11000 cavalry is forced to stand and fight near the river Orontes. Faced by the combined Alexandrian-Macedonian army of 60000 infantry and 10000 cavalry the Persian army is defeated, Hector I is killed and and 22000 Persian troops are captured and sold into slavery. The Persian empire rapidly desintergrates into a number of small kingdoms.
    -The Alexandrian Empire reoccupies Mesopotamia and annexes the Persian Satrapies of Armenia and Perisis.
    -Amyntas marries Achillies of Macedon's daughter Arinoe.
    252:
    -Philip III dispatches a fleet of 170 mechant vessels to India from various Red Sea ports.
    -Achillies campaigns against the Scythians to the north of the Crimea.
    -War breaks out between Syracuse and Rome, a Roman army of 18000 infantry and 1000 cavalry lands in Sicily. The Roman army is defeated, only 3000 infantry manage to get back to Italy.
    250:
    -The last of the Merchant fleet dispatched to India in 252 by Philip III returns. Bearly 50 make it back to Egypt (another 30 are reach various ports on the Arabian Penisular but are too badly damaged to continue back to Egypt). As a result of the disaster Philip III orders that a ship better suited for use in the India trade be developed.
    -A Roman army of 16000 infantry and 1000 cavalry lands in Sicily near Catania. The Roman army encounters a Syracusan army of 18000 infantry and 1500 cavalry. The Romans make use of primative grenades to blast holes in the Syracusian Phalanx. The Battle results in a Roman victory.