Alexander the Great lived 30 more years

A Clarification

In saying Alexander turned his attention eastward, I rather imagined he would concentrate on keeping Persia in line, rather than overextend himself further by invading China or India. And why would he be interested in Arabia? (Did he see a use for that black oily stuff seeping out of the ground?):) And with strong rivals on either side, Rome would have been hemmed in. Mayans, Aztecs, Olmecs or Toltecs, or perhaps some other tribe might have been on hand in Mexico to greet our intrepid explorers; legends of Quetzalcoatl suggests early Europeans reached the New World. And also, perhaps I shouldn't have suggested Vikings competed with other groups for the future USA territory--more likely Germanics, Norsemen, or whatever group of people inhabited England--Celts, Druids.
 
Great ideas by all if i may add, and a good discussion (and praise be to beng nice to the 'new guy' :) )

I think , for me, the gist of it is yes if Alexander doesn't die that the Greek Empire would last longer...but alas no one is Immortal..that being said IMO Rome may be a good target IF Alexander can consolidate his gains.

EE, I too think that it would be better as i said above for Alexander not to get too concerned with the Indus or anything far-flung.

As for the Americas; aside from the fact that I'm not too sure where they come into play but I don't know what effect it would have, but i will agree with Hapsburg--the rise and fall of an empire with which the Norse and/or Vikings have no knowedge of or contact with wouldn't have much effect on patterns of migration or travel...
 
As far as Jesus being born, it's hard to say what would happen without Roman influence in the area. Looking at Jesus' life through the political lens (I don't want to debate religious overtones at the moment) the political climate in Judea is likely very different, so I wonder if Jesus would garner the same following he did OTL.

Would a Greek run Egypt offer up the same conditions that forced Moses to demand that his people be let go? If you're gonna bring up butterflys, why not start here? Seems to me this is sorta the flash point of Jewish, and later Christian claims to the Holy land. Would that be a butterfly, or a Condor?

Just sayin:)
 
Would a Greek run Egypt offer up the same conditions that forced Moses to demand that his people be let go? If you're gonna bring up butterflys, why not start here? Seems to me this is sorta the flash point of Jewish, and later Christian claims to the Holy land. Would that be a butterfly, or a Condor?

Just sayin:)

Well actually, Alexander died in 323 BC and most of the dates I've seen for the Exodus are considerably earlier than that.
 
If I remnber right Flocc did a time-line based on this POD. It was called The Sons of Alexander.
 
Would a Greek run Egypt offer up the same conditions that forced Moses to demand that his people be let go? If you're gonna bring up butterflys, why not start here? Seems to me this is sorta the flash point of Jewish, and later Christian claims to the Holy land. Would that be a butterfly, or a Condor?
The exodus occurred some 2000 years before Alexander III's time. By this time, the Jews have dominated Palestine for over five hundred years. They're there, and there's no reason for Yeshua ben Yosef to not be born in the region.

Now, the guy pursuing a career as a cleric, challenging the Roman state, and getting executed? No. Not likely, especially the latter part, as Rome won't likely be in Palestine by 36 CE.
 
The exodus occurred some 2000 years before Alexander III's time. By this time, the Jews have dominated Palestine for over five hundred years. They're there, and there's no reason for Yeshua ben Yosef to not be born in the region.

Now, the guy pursuing a career as a cleric, challenging the Roman state, and getting executed? No. Not likely, especially the latter part, as Rome won't likely be in Palestine by 36 CE.

I can't even begin to imagine the differences in the region with no Rome. Rome took control of Judea in around 63 BCE IIRC. If, instead, Alexander can solidify his empire, even localized to the area around the Med, what would Judea look like after 300 years of Greek influence?
 
In saying Alexander turned his attention eastward, I rather imagined he would concentrate on keeping Persia in line, rather than overextend himself further by invading China or India. And why would he be interested in Arabia? (Did he see a use for that black oily stuff seeping out of the ground?):) And with strong rivals on either side, Rome would have been hemmed in. Mayans, Aztecs, Olmecs or Toltecs, or perhaps some other tribe might have been on hand in Mexico to greet our intrepid explorers; legends of Quetzalcoatl suggests early Europeans reached the New World. And also, perhaps I shouldn't have suggested Vikings competed with other groups for the future USA territory--more likely Germanics, Norsemen, or whatever group of people inhabited England--Celts, Druids.

Arabia was his next target which is why he sent Nearchus to chart the coastline prior to his invasion. Alexander was of course interested mainly in the sparsely populated or unpopulated coastal regions. Leaving a largely unknown area bordering the administrative heartland of his new empire alone seems rather foolish.

As for Rome being 'hemmed in' it again depends on when Alexander decides to invade. Carthage and Rome had a treaty since the earliest days of the Republic (within a year or two of the kings being expelled) that was renewed at least twice since, the last time being when Pyrrhus invaded. This would suggest that it would again be invoked if Alexander invaded.

An interesting note is the fact of the Roman delegation to Alexander's court when he was proclaimed King of Kings. Was this a fact finding mission, a diplomatic mission or what I suspect was either a token submission or much more likely an acceptance of Alexander's preeminence in world affairs - a defacto ruler of all. This would be possible to expand to an acknowledgement of Alexander's overlordship if and when he invaded. However, if Appius Claudius is still in this ATL the dominating presence in the Republic he ws in OTL, I suspect Rome would fight and would be a very hard nut to crack indeed.

Alexander would have to fight a real almost modern war not just a series of battles. By that I mean for Alexander to win he would have to detach the Roman allies and destroy Rome's military base of manpower, resources and political structure. Just beating Rome in the field like Pyrrhus did or Hannibal after that is useless. Again the timing is important.
 
I can't even begin to imagine the differences in the region with no Rome. Rome took control of Judea in around 63 BCE IIRC. If, instead, Alexander can solidify his empire, even localized to the area around the Med, what would Judea look like after 300 years of Greek influence?

It would likely look the same as it did after three hundred years of Greek influence in OTL. The Maccabees did not undo all the influence of Greek cultural influence as thier propaganda was designed to promote.
 
Toynbee

British Historian Arnold J. Toynbee once wrote a Super-Alexander-Fiction.
In short:

323 B.C.
Alexander is cured from his almost-deadly illness. He becomes a lot calmer
and lets his loyal officers Eumenes, Perdikkas and Ptolemaios rule the empire during his the next few years when he is campaining.

322 B.C.
Alexander sails around the Arabian peninsula, thereby discovering the Monsoon. In Suez, he orders the renewal of the channel of pharao Necho and king Dareios I.
As planned, Phoenicians are settled at the Persian Gulf, along with other neighbouring peoples as Samaritans, Moabits and Arameans, also the Hebrew. They use their opportunity and become an open-minded people. No religious strive and therefore no religious movements which spring off a humiliated Judaism. Thus: No christianity (according to Toynbee).
Alexander's new Capitol becomes Alexandria in Egypt.

321 B.C.
He sails to Macedonia and secures the frontiers in Thracia and Anatolia.
Romans are beaten by Samnites (realiter).

320/319 B.C.
Conquer of Sicily and Carthage. Both are reorganized in the same manner as the Corinthian league (the leagues of Utica and Syracuse).
In Gibraltar, he founds the city of Alexandreia Eschata Herakleia.
Pytheas of Massilia whom Alex met in Gades receives order to sail around Africa.

318 B.C.
Greek-Roman Pact against Samnites

317 B.C.
Victory over Samnium. Southern Italy ("Magna Graecia") is reorganized as the league of Naples. Rome may conquer whole Italy and - if possible - Gaul.

317-314 B.C.
With the Mediterrean Sea in his hands, he forms a new army with Oscian mercenaries and moves to India. He conquers the kingdom of Magadha, Seleukos will be ruling there.
At the Ganges river, Alexander mets a Phoenican fleet that discovered the way to India by sea.
From now on, Buddhist missionaries move deep into the empire. Buddhism tolerates any historic religion. In Hellas, Zenon and Epikur write essays on Buddhistic philosophy. World state and world religion are linked together from now on.

312/311 B.C.
Alexander moves to the Jaxartes river. Having heard of the Chinese wealth, he joins an uprising and conquers China. Antigonos Monophthalmos is made king of China (as kind of stateholder, of course).

308 B.C.
Nearch discovers the sea way from India to China. In the following centuries, Chinese population moves down the islands in the south, making Australia a Chinese continent.

287 B.C.
Alexander dies.

His successor Alex IV. civilizes his empire, reorganizes administration, builds up infrastructure etc. In Alexandria, he builds a university ("Museion" for philosophers, "Hephaisteion" for Technicians). Heron discovers the steam power, Aristarch the heliocentric idea. Erastothenes finds that Earth is kind of a ball.

about 220 B.C.
A young Carthaginian named Hannibal has read the stories of Atlantis and hopes to find it across the ocean. Guess what he finds - yeah, right. The new continent of Antipodia.

The rest of the world slowly joins the peaceful and benevolent empire.

About 1930 A.D.
A historian named Arnoldus Toynbeenus sits in Alexandria and imagines a world where Alexander died. He shudders by the mere thought of it and praises Alexander LXXXVI.
 
British Historian Arnold J. Toynbee once wrote a Super-Alexander-Fiction.
In short:

323 B.C.
Alexander is cured from his almost-deadly illness. He becomes a lot calmer
and lets his loyal officers Eumenes, Perdikkas and Ptolemaios rule the empire during his the next few years when he is campaining.

322 B.C.
Alexander sails around the Arabian peninsula, thereby discovering the Monsoon. In Suez, he orders the renewal of the channel of pharao Necho and king Dareios I.
As planned, Phoenicians are settled at the Persian Gulf, along with other neighbouring peoples as Samaritans, Moabits and Arameans, also the Hebrew. They use their opportunity and become an open-minded people. No religious strive and therefore no religious movements which spring off a humiliated Judaism. Thus: No christianity (according to Toynbee).
Alexander's new Capitol becomes Alexandria in Egypt.

321 B.C.
He sails to Macedonia and secures the frontiers in Thracia and Anatolia.
Romans are beaten by Samnites (realiter).

320/319 B.C.
Conquer of Sicily and Carthage. Both are reorganized in the same manner as the Corinthian league (the leagues of Utica and Syracuse).
In Gibraltar, he founds the city of Alexandreia Eschata Herakleia.
Pytheas of Massilia whom Alex met in Gades receives order to sail around Africa.

318 B.C.
Greek-Roman Pact against Samnites

317 B.C.
Victory over Samnium. Southern Italy ("Magna Graecia") is reorganized as the league of Naples. Rome may conquer whole Italy and - if possible - Gaul.

317-314 B.C.
With the Mediterrean Sea in his hands, he forms a new army with Oscian mercenaries and moves to India. He conquers the kingdom of Magadha, Seleukos will be ruling there.
At the Ganges river, Alexander mets a Phoenican fleet that discovered the way to India by sea.
From now on, Buddhist missionaries move deep into the empire. Buddhism tolerates any historic religion. In Hellas, Zenon and Epikur write essays on Buddhistic philosophy. World state and world religion are linked together from now on.

312/311 B.C.
Alexander moves to the Jaxartes river. Having heard of the Chinese wealth, he joins an uprising and conquers China. Antigonos Monophthalmos is made king of China (as kind of stateholder, of course).

308 B.C.
Nearch discovers the sea way from India to China. In the following centuries, Chinese population moves down the islands in the south, making Australia a Chinese continent.

287 B.C.
Alexander dies.

His successor Alex IV. civilizes his empire, reorganizes administration, builds up infrastructure etc. In Alexandria, he builds a university ("Museion" for philosophers, "Hephaisteion" for Technicians). Heron discovers the steam power, Aristarch the heliocentric idea. Erastothenes finds that Earth is kind of a ball.

about 220 B.C.
A young Carthaginian named Hannibal has read the stories of Atlantis and hopes to find it across the ocean. Guess what he finds - yeah, right. The new continent of Antipodia.

The rest of the world slowly joins the peaceful and benevolent empire.

About 1930 A.D.
A historian named Arnoldus Toynbeenus sits in Alexandria and imagines a world where Alexander died. He shudders by the mere thought of it and praises Alexander LXXXVI.
The Past is The Future and The Future is The Past ...

BUT, isn't that The Irony of Most Long-Term Counterfactuals ...

The More Things Change, The More they Stay The Same?

:p
 
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