It's communists, as if they're interested in legends.
I kid, but I'm sure a compromise flag could exist.
I kid, but I'm sure a compromise flag could exist.
Al Grito de Guerra: the Second Mexican Revolution
- Thread starter Roberto El Rey
- Start date
Cuba didn't change theirs and I doubt any latin american socialist state would. Nationalist anti imperialist retoric is just or more important to us than world revolution retoric.
It was an "artistic choice".
In all seriousness, though, I actually appreciate that suggestion because I'm currently struggling to design a flag for the State of Zapata. Would you mind if I incorporated some of those ideas?
That's kinda why I was suggesting the corn, since wheat was usually associated with the coat of arms of the Soviet Union. And instead of the eagle holding them, why not have the hammer snd sickle on the red stripe of the flag? Also, I know this is a mexica legend, I grew up studying that in México.
That, or maybe they borrow inspiration from the US and Canada’s communist symbols, of also to differentiate themselves from the USSR
Narrative Interlude #4
Moscow, USSR
August 7, 1991
August 7, 1991
Mikhail Sergeyevich Gorbachev, President of the Soviet Union, grunted a word of thanks as the document was deposited on his desk. Slouching forward in his chair, the General Secretary of the Communist Party dragged his gaze across the cover of the forty-page typescript: Report on Political Developments in Mexico Since 1988.
A few years ago, Gorbachev would never have had the time to commission a report on a country halfway across the globe. There was so much to do then: rooting out corruption within the Communist Party establishment, loosening the restrictions on freedom of speech and expression, reviving an economy with all the stability and efficiency of a dropped lasagna. Now, however, it seemed that the President was losing power and influence by the day. Where he once had sweeping powers over the vast country, Gorbachev now struggled to keep control of his own Party, watching helplessly as sessions of the new Congress of People's Deputies erupted into open rhetorical warfare between squabbling Party factions. Meanwhile, each corner of the Union was revolting against Moscow. The Baltics had already gone their own way, chauvinistic parties were on the rise in Ukraine and Belarus, and Tajiks and Armenians were at each others’ throats as law and order disintegrated.
What stung most, Gorbachev realized, was that his own mistakes had worsened many of the problems. If Gorbachev hadn’t sent tanks rumbling through Vilnius, the Baltic Republics might not have been so adamant about independence, and the Ukrainians and Belarusians might not be making similar noises now. And, Gorbachev thought, if he hadn’t spent so much time cozying up to unpopular reformists, he wouldn’t have lost so much of his credibility as General Secretary of the Communist Party.
Luckily, though, things were looking up now. By forming an alliance with the hardliners, Gorbachev had shored up his remaining Party influence over the objections of men like Yeltsin, who said that allying with the old guard would only bring destruction and disarray. In two weeks, nine of the thirteen Republics would gather in Moscow to sign the New Union Treaty, ensuring that the Soviet Union—in the form of a decentralized confederation—would survive into the next millennium. Still, Gorbachev was increasingly finding himself with a lot of spare time, and, although the Foreign Ministry was in many ways a mere phantom of its former self, it still knew how to put together a good report. So he had asked Foreign Minister Bessmertnykh for a study on Mexico, a country in which he had taken particular interest since the rebellion had broken out in July.
As he flipped through the report, Gorbachev was reminded of just how much he had had in common with Carlos Salinas. Both men had rapidly risen through the ranks of one-party states, both men had tried to bring liberal reform to stagnant and sclerotic political systems, and both men had become despised by the hardliners within their respective parties (and, of course, both men were balding). Despite the vast differences between two Presidents’ economic policies, they had shared several fruitful and good-natured communications during Salinas’s short time in office; plans had already been made for them to meet in person when Salinas was shot in 1989. The General Secretary had been deeply shaken by the news of Salinas’s assassination, and as he held the report in his hands, he was eager to see how his successors had handled the turbulent situation.
Reading the document, he found to his dismay that they had quite thoroughly bungled it: First, Salinas’s incompetent kleptocrat of a brother had sent the economy plunging, and then, the new fellow, Bartlett, had been so indiscriminate with his application of government force that now, he had a full-scale rebellion on his hands. Some of the more “colorful” elements of the Western press had declared the ELM to be Soviet lackeys; in truth, Moscow had been just as blindsided by the rebellion as Mexico City had been. Still, it didn’t hurt to be well-informed, the General Secretary reminded himself as he buried his nose within the report.
As he read, a picture started to form in Gorbachev’s mind of just what had been going on in Mexico City for the past three years. Salinas, the reformer, had come to power over the grumbling objections of the Party hardliners, who then kept up appearances of supporting the President while secretly plotting to undermine him and preserve their entrenched privileges. And when Salinas was suddenly killed in 1989, the old guard swiftly swooped in, nominated a puppet leader in the form of Salinas’s older brother, and then took direct control of the country in the form of Manuel Bartlett. Hardliners, Gorbachev thought to himself, are at their most dangerous when they’re acting friendly toward reformists.
Just as this thought formed in the General Secretary’s mind, a parallel one began to crystallize, far less abstract and far more unsettling than its predecessor: What exactly was Pavlov's [1] intention last month, when he asked the Congress to give him my Presidential powers?
This thought birthed other, even less pleasing thoughts, and Gorbachev closed his eyes to examine them:
Who exactly was Kryuchkov [2] talking about when he called for the purging of “traitors” within the Party leadership?
Why was Pugo [3] so quick to deny plans for a coup during our meetings, when I hadn’t even mentioned a coup in the first place?
What did Shevardnadze [4] mean when he said that “dictatorship is coming?”
For several minutes, Gorbachev sat pondering these questions, his pulse growing quicker as billions of neurons fired furiously within his birthmarked cranium. Hardliners are at their most dangerous when they’re acting friendly toward reformists.
Then, with the grace of a stumbling elephant, he lunged for the telephone and slammed the receiver into his ear. A few tinny rings, then a click, and then an ever-so-slightly slurred voice emerged from the other end.
“Mr. President?”
Gorbachev briefly considered addressing the President of the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic with the same title, but decided against it.
“Boris Nikolaevich,” Gorbachev began, “I’m afraid I require your assistance in dealing with a few pressing threats to our national security…”
__________
[1] Valentin Pavlov, who was Prime Minister of the Soviet Union for a few months in 1991. Pavlov was a member of the so-called "Gang of Eight", a clique of Communist Party hardliners that perpetrated the failed "August Coup" of 1991, which tried to depose Gorbachev and prevent the disintegration of the Soviet Union but only accelerated its demise.
[2] Vladimir Kryuchkov, head of the KGB, who was also part of the Gang of Eight.
[3] Boris Pugo, another Party minister who was a member of the Gang of Eight.
[4] Eduard Shevardnadze, Gorbachev's Foreign Minister from 1985 until 1990, when he resigned in protest of Gorbachev's cozying up to Communist Party hardliners like those in the Gang of Eight.
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Vanilla HOI IV sucks, that's the main reason. They're too busy doing systems to make anything other than the strict OTL route at all well-researched or interesting.I use console cheats because I'm a newb
But I'm somewhat confused as to why they decided to pick the EZLN flag for the Socialist Republic of Mexico under Cárdenas. It would've made more sense to keep the original flag or add some socialist elements into it, like making a wreath of corn around the eagle and have it hold the hammer and sickle in its claws.
Did...did Gorbachev just try to work with Yeltsin to stop the august coup?
I can't decide if I want to laugh, cheer, or scream in existential horror.
I can't decide if I want to laugh, cheer, or scream in existential horror.
Hopefully that's not unrealistic. To quote from Lenin's Tomb,
"...But even as he was trying to assert his power [as President of the RSFSR], Yeltsin was hoping that his presidency would help Gorbachev realize that there could be no future in an alliance with Kryuchkov, Yazov, Pugo, and the old guard."
The idea is that when Gorbachev is finally shown an example of a reformist leader dying inconveniently and being replaced by hardliners, he realizes that Yeltsin's warnings about the Gang of Eight are very serious. In OTL, in the months preceding the Coup, Yeltsin put out some not-too-subtle warnings to potential putschists (for example, in June 1991, he made a statement condemning "anyone who tries to resolve social problems by means of military force"), and so when Gorbachev has this "lightbulb moment", he quickly realizes that Yeltsin has enough guts and popular support to nip the coup in the bud before it happens.
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yeah, the thing with Yeltsin though is that he's just angling for his own power, and is an incompetent alcoholic to boot. Allying with him could easily be worse for Russia than the August coup.
Hey at least we got Mondragón rifles and true Mexican planes in the game. I'll take it. However, the whole thing with Trotsky does not sit well with me at all, since it's constitunionally illegal for a foreigner to become ruler of Mexico. And yeah, Trotsky might have been a good general and all, but I doubt he would usurp the power from a Mexican ruler since he himself was denied premiership by Stalin's machinations.
Yeah, it's just like the vanilla 2ACW, which is...kinda hot garbage, and doesn't reflect the real political situation of the '30s very well. This is (yet another) case where Kaiserreich is orders of magnitude better than the base game. Hell, they even now have distinct tanks with unique descriptions for all the 2ACW factions!
Anyway, this is a bit of a digression, we should probably go back to discussing '90s Mexico now, lol.
Also if the Zapatistas are not Libertarian Socialist ITTL, what are they? National Socialist? Social anarchism? Communist Monarchist? Capitalist Communist (Also known as State capitalism) Red Fascists? Anarcho-syndicalism? syndicalist? Libertarian Marxism? Anarcho-communism?
Ideologically, they are mostly still libertarian socialist—the Cuban connection has pushed them a bit in the straight-up communist direction, but overall, the rhetoric is mostly the same. However, the different pressures placed on them ITTL means that practically, the Zapatistas will have to adopt some less-than-libertarian measures to defend themselves and stay independent. (I’ll go into more depth two or three updates from now.)Also if the Zapatistas are not Libertarian Socialist ITTL, what are they? National Socialist? Social anarchism? Communist Monarchist? Capitalist Communist (Also known as State capitalism) Red Fascists? Anarcho-syndicalism? syndicalist? Libertarian Marxism? Anarcho-communism?
Three years after Celeste was brutally murdered, Cuauhtémoc Cárdenas is finally ready to emerge from his shell of grief and start influencing the public discourse again. While he doesn't want to run for office again (he fears it might cost him more loved ones), Cárdenas will soon begin publicly criticizing President Bartlett and trying to calm the waters of rebellion by calling on the rebels to lay down their arms and come the negotiating table. This is a good thing, because the Zapatistas recognize only Cárdenas as the legitimate President of Mexico (he was the real winner of the Presidential election, after all), and therefore will only agree to negotiate with him and not representatives of the Bartlett government. The product of these negotiations will be shown within the next few updates.
Now that the Mexican President AMLO has decided to antagonize and radicalize the Zapatistas. How likely is it for Mexico devolve into civil war?