Akira Toriyama never wrote Dragon Ball

In OTL, Dragon Ball is the third best selling manga in history, and clearly influenced many other manga, such as One Piece.

What if that never happened? I have two scenarios.

1. Toriyama sticks to Dr. Slump, and never writes Dragon Ball.

2. Toriyama ends Dragon Ball before it reaches the "Z" part.
 
Shounen manga and anime (hell, manga and anime in general) would end up as a niche genre in North America at best. The genre itself would be drastically different, too - many of the central ideas and cliches within it were started by Dragon Ball Z, after all.

It's likely that Naruto, One Piece, Bleach and Toriko, among others, are never written or are wildly different from their OTL counterparts, seeing as all of them are heavily influenced by Dragon Ball Z - just to add to point 1.

Avatar: TLA likely never ends up being created, or resembles a western cartoon instead of an anime influenced one.

Mega Evolution is never introduced in Pokemon (if it doesn't fall to obscurity, though unlikely).

Overall, Japanese culture has a much smaller impact on the outside world - DBZ was the first anime to massively breach this barrier, and unless there is an another Shounen anime that can replicate it's success worldwide (maybe Fist of the North Star or Jojo's Bizarre Adventure), those barriers are going to stay.
 
Shounen manga and anime (hell, manga and anime in general) would end up as a niche genre in North America at best. The genre itself would be drastically different, too - many of the central ideas and cliches within it were started by Dragon Ball Z, after all.

It's likely that Naruto, One Piece, Bleach and Toriko, among others, are never written or are wildly different from their OTL counterparts, seeing as all of them are heavily influenced by Dragon Ball Z - just to add to point 1.

Avatar: TLA likely never ends up being created, or resembles a western cartoon instead of an anime influenced one.

Mega Evolution is never introduced in Pokemon (if it doesn't fall to obscurity, though unlikely).

Overall, Japanese culture has a much smaller impact on the outside world - DBZ was the first anime to massively breach this barrier, and unless there is an another Shounen anime that can replicate it's success worldwide (maybe Fist of the North Star or Jojo's Bizarre Adventure), those barriers are going to stay.

Don't forget Saint Seiya.
 
You killed Dragon Quest(the game was popular because toriyama was popular) you monster....

So yeah Saint Seiya would fill that void, maybe Jojo will be pushed for an anime early? Jojo and Hokuto no Ken were the kings of shonen jump before dragon ball
 
Functionally, You've changed two major genres of entertainment: Anime and Video Games.

No DB means Shonen series are completely changed.
We may see more Sports/Sci-fi in the genre, since Series like Slam Dunk, Ashita No Joe and Gigantor are still around.

Since no DB isn't likely to have an impact on martial arts mangas like Ranma 1/2, they may draw more influence from Fist of the North Star and Jojo's Bizarre adventure.
Which in turn means it might be harder to bring them over to the US if they're significantly more violent and bloody.

Kinnikuman is still around, and it's considered to be another major influence on the genre, so it's possible that it may fill the niche as the super-popular martial arts, technically wrestling, manga with comedy.
Although Brocken Jr might make it a bit of a hard sell.

So basically, the four big Shonen series that may influence people are now Fist of the North Star (emphasis on Manliness), Jojo's Bizarre adventure (strangeness), Kinnikuman (the parody/comedy and martial arts/wrestling) and Saint Seiya.

No success means he's never approached by Yujii Horii and the Dragon Quest/Dragon Warrior series isn't likely to be as popular.
It's still the first of it's kind and a major influence on the JRPG genre, but without Toriyama's artwork it won't get the boost in popularity like OTL. Might still lead to a successful series, or without that popularity to bank on, it might just wither away against Final Fantasy.
 
Functionally, You've changed two major genres of entertainment: Anime and Video Games.

No DB means Shonen series are completely changed.
We may see more Sports/Sci-fi in the genre, since Series like Slam Dunk, Ashita No Joe and Gigantor are still around.

Since no DB isn't likely to have an impact on martial arts mangas like Ranma 1/2, they may draw more influence from Fist of the North Star and Jojo's Bizarre adventure.
Which in turn means it might be harder to bring them over to the US if they're significantly more violent and bloody.

Kinnikuman is still around, and it's considered to be another major influence on the genre, so it's possible that it may fill the niche as the super-popular martial arts, technically wrestling, manga with comedy.
Although Brocken Jr might make it a bit of a hard sell.

So basically, the four big Shonen series that may influence people are now Fist of the North Star (emphasis on Manliness), Jojo's Bizarre adventure (strangeness), Kinnikuman (the parody/comedy and martial arts/wrestling) and Saint Seiya.

No success means he's never approached by Yujii Horii and the Dragon Quest/Dragon Warrior series isn't likely to be as popular.
It's still the first of it's kind and a major influence on the JRPG genre, but without Toriyama's artwork it won't get the boost in popularity like OTL. Might still lead to a successful series, or without that popularity to bank on, it might just wither away against Final Fantasy.
Keep in mind that Toriyama was already fairly successful, having written Dr. Slump beforehand.
 
Keep in mind that Toriyama was already fairly successful, having written Dr. Slump beforehand.
He was primarily known as a oneshot gag manga author, though. DB was also going to be something like that, but it evolved into something entirely different on the way.
 
Yeah, but Dragon Quest came out at when Toriyama was still riding the DB wave.

Dr. Slump's popular but not popular enough to justify going after Toriyama to do Dragon Quest.
It was more the opposite in fact, Hoori was a copywritter and editor at shonen jump and toriyama personal friend, he discussed his idea with him to the game would become dragon quest(and the name was chose because that, because sound coincidetial similar to Dragon Ball) so if toriyama is more know for his subreal comedy, any idea would be based on it, heck Dragon ball creatures become Dragon Quest Monsters so either is butterfly away or we ended with a dragon quest more 'futuristic' and closer to 'mother-earthbound' in a way...
 
It varies. In Italy, Hokuto no Ken, Saint Seiya, and the whole giant robot genre had raised up a generation before Dragon Ball arrived. While the changes in Japan will obviously reflect here, I can't see the success of anime faltering - it's just too late.
 
In video games JRPGS probably never get out of the Final fantasy series and maybe the first crono trigger at best.


Thus Western RPGs have a much more Narrow competition. We get something along the lines of "electronic Dungeons and Dragons." In place of final fantasy 7 and onwards. Maybe this leads to an earlier MMORPG?
 
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Archibald

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It varies. In Italy, Hokuto no Ken, Saint Seiya, and the whole giant robot genre had raised up a generation before Dragon Ball arrived. While the changes in Japan will obviously reflect here, I can't see the success of anime faltering - it's just too late.

Same thing in France. Captain Harlock and Mazinger were also popular from 1978 or so, long before DB ever existed. (translated as Albator and Goldorak)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Harlock
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazinger

Damn, my parent forbadde me and my sisters to watch Hokuto no ken back then. I've watched it recently as an adult, and this is very gory and cruel, much more than DB ever was (although the Frieza saga can be violent at times...)
 
In video games JRPGS probably never get out of the Final fantasy series and maybe the first crono trigger at best.

Thus Western RPGs have a much more Narrow competition. We get something along the lines of "electronic Dungeons and Dragons." In place of final fantasy 7 and onwards. Maybe this leads to an earlier MMORPG?

How so? There were more early JRPGs out there that couldn't be too affected by Dragon Quest not existing. Actually, Dragon Quest could still work, since IIRC it was very based on Wizardry (an American franchise) and was thus very popular. Final Fantasy being bigger than it ever was in Japan could be interesting in regards to JRPGs. There's also Shin Megami Tensei, but knowing video game censorship, good luck ever bringing that over here in the 90s.

But you might get a very different Chrono Trigger, if it even exists at all. Final Fantasy VII was what really launched it all anyway, but it isn't like the genre wasn't popular already going by Final Fantasy III/VI and all.

Same thing in France. Captain Harlock and Mazinger were also popular from 1978 or so, long before DB ever existed. (translated as Albator and Goldorak)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Harlock
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazinger

Damn, my parent forbadde me and my sisters to watch Hokuto no ken back then. I've watched it recently as an adult, and this is very gory and cruel, much more than DB ever was (although the Frieza saga can be violent at times...)

Which speaking of Mazinger, that's very interesting if without Dragonball Z, they might bring over more of the oldschool mecha anime. I think Saint Seiya filling DBZ's role is very, very plausible, considering it's popularity in Latin America and some other countries compared to the US.

But which mecha anime might they bring over? If this is the late 90s/early 00s, then your 70s stuff might find it difficult to compete based on the age and plots those shows used. Gundam was, of course, a huge success, but you're gonna need something else. GaoGaiGar? Seems like it's both kid-friendly and yet a bit deeper than your typical show. Maybe also Layzner, another 80s mecha show, since a dub meant for US TV almost actually was produced and it seems like it could succeed.
 
The issue with Saint Seiya: it is boring. The fights are boring, unlike DBZ. The attacks last power, awesomeness and charisma. Even Yamcha could blow Seiya to smithereens using only a finger. DBZ characters can blow the whole universe, damn it.
(for those grown DBZ fans like me who loath DB Super crapiness: read this fanfic. It is just awesome. http://www.dragonball-multiverse.com/en/chapters.html )
I respectfully disagree on your opinion on the action of Saint Seiya, the statement that DBS characters can blow up the universe, your opinion on the quality of DB Super and advertisement of a wanky Mary Sue ridden fanfic, but this is not the place to discuss any of this.

Moving on, what impact would the nonexistence of Dragon Ball have in the fighting games market? DBZ fighting games, especially the popular ones like Budokai Tenkaichi 3 and Xenoverse, were important in the genre of free roam fighters.
 
The issue with Saint Seiya: it is boring. The fights are boring, unlike DBZ. The attacks last power, awesomeness and charisma. Even Yamcha could blow Seiya to smithereens using only a finger. DBZ characters can blow the whole universe, damn it.
(for those grown DBZ fans like me who loath DB Super crapiness: read this fanfic. It is just awesome. http://www.dragonball-multiverse.com/en/chapters.html )

Well, I always found Saint Seiya more entertaining. With the DBZ I watched as a kid (not much, thanks to lack of cable) and the Saint Seiya I watched (rather bad subtitles, as a teenager), I'd say Saint Seiya was better. And it seems clear the Japanese audience (most important) thought as I do to some degree as another.

I mean, there's subsitutes in the end.
 
It's not a world I'd want to live in...

That said, I agree. The lack if Dragon Ball will make JoJo, HnK and Saint Seiya take its place. Also Kinikuman.

But any modern Shonen is likely butterflied away, maybeas far as YuYu Hakusho.
 
YuYu Hakusho.
That will keep closer to a supernatural dectective with punchs, those tournament arcs are butterfly away of course(not need to copy Tenkaichi Budōkai from dragon ball) and closer to those supernatural mythos more, so far yeah in latin america and europe the change is brutal as both dragon ball and dragon ball z were television changing affair...maybe Jojo would take the place but that is before the whole stardust crusaders is over too...
 
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