Air and Space Photos from Alternate Worlds.

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nixonshead

In this week's post, Eyes Turned Skywards explored efforts to move away from the expendable launchers and capsules which continue to do sterling work in returning Americans to the Moon in the late '90s, and instead explore the possibilities of a reusable spacecraft based on a lifting body design...

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22iron thunder

Yeah just imagine. This is the only picture I've ever seen of it. Looks like it could tip over easily. Maybe some anchoring cables? I hope they don't slip going down the ladder.:rolleyes:
 

e of pi

22iron thunder said:
Yeah just imagine. This is the only picture I've ever seen of it. Looks like it could tip over easily. Maybe some anchoring cables? I hope they don't slip going down the ladder.:rolleyes:
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Cables would be useful to steady it, but they'd only help after landing. I'd be more worried about it tipping during landing--if it came down with almost any residual horizontal speed at all on any kind of slope...well, the results could be amusing to watch, but less so for the crew.
 

22iron thunder

:eek:
e of pi said:
Cables would be useful to steady it, but they'd only help after landing. I'd be more worried about it tipping during landing--if it came down with almost any residual horizontal speed at all on any kind of slope...well, the results could be amusing to watch, but less so for the crew.
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How could that be countered? Powerful rcs thrusters? I'm not sure. That sure would look cool on the moon though. Is this possible to compete against the LK for soviet lander if N-1 was successful?

P.S. I LOVE Eyes Turned Skyward.:D Will Russia continue rides on Artemis missions or build their own lunar lander?
 

nixonshead

Hmm, I don't see any separate ascent engine, unless it's in the Soyuz service module. If it is the service module, it would have to be an upgrade - and would it have room for fuel, especially with the dead weight of the orbital module to lift as well.
The other alternative, re-starting the Proton, would mean that there's still quite a bit of fuel in the tank upon landing. Coupled with the heavy engine, it will move the centre of mass to a fairly low position, easing the stability problem.
Or it could be a one-way suicide mission, for the Glory of the Motherland ;)
 
Petike

Petike

I'm having trouble making an ATL capsulecraft that is inspired by Gemini in terms of looks. I want to make it similar enough, but not the same. I'd like to add some believable quirks and differences to it, but no to the extent that I'd prevent it from being functional. Any tips on what I could try ? :eek:

I have lots of blueprints and cross-sections of 1960s capsulecraft, so you don't need to recommend me any resources or post too many pictures on how I could modify things. I can manage, I just need to break the "designer's/illustrator's block" I currently have.

22iron thunder said:
From an old Air and Space magazine article. Way cooler than the puny LK. :D
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That's a borderline insane configuration. :eek: Did everyone in the pre-landing era think that Wernher von Braun's opinions on how spacecraft should land are sacrosanct ? Did they think that even the Russians would be so obsessed with that, instead of a proper separate lander ? :confused:

Pipcard said:
Hatsunia's M-II and Negi-5 rockets launching from the near-equatorial Negishima Space Center
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These are nice. What types of satellites are they capable of carrying ?
 
Pipcard

Pipcard

Petike said:
These are nice. What types of satellites are they capable of carrying ?
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Thanks. The M-II is based on the H-IIA, and has four variants that can carry 11-33 metric tons to Low Earth Orbit, and 4-13 tonnes to Geostationary Transfer Orbit.

The Negi-5 is based on the Epsilon/Mu-V rockets, and can carry 2 tonnes to LEO.
 
Thande

Thande

Donor
Petike said:
I'm having trouble making an ATL capsulecraft that is inspired by Gemini in terms of looks. I want to make it similar enough, but not the same. I'd like to add some believable quirks and differences to it, but no to the extent that I'd prevent it from being functional. Any tips on what I could try ? :eek:
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Well there's always the James Bond approach of "we want to show a Soviet spacecraft, but we don't know what they actually look like, so we'll do something that looks a bit like Gemini as a counterpart to the American Gemini".

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Petike

Petike

Thanks, Thande. :D I'll give it some thought.

I've always found it peculiar how shielded the Gemini capsule's main thrusters were. At face value, it's as if the capsule doesn't even have thrusters. :eek: Alternatively, the Gemini is the only capsule to ever sport a dainty little skirt... What a lady ! :p

The same timeline I'm making my particular ATL capsule for also features a British space programme. The UK uses a capsule design that is basically the OTL unused "General Electric Apollo / Apollo D2" concept.
 
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Petike

Petike

22iron thunder said:
Hey Petike,you should have it land on dry land using something like the gemini rogallo wing.:)
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Eeeerm... While I am looking forward to making my capsules more ATLish, I'm not sure whether I'd like to try the rogallo concept. I've never come to a satisfying conclusion on how well it worked in OTL. Besides, for future, heavier capsules, I'm fearing that the rogallo wing would just be too weak, and had to be enlarged to absurd degrees in order to work properly and not malfunction. Ergo, a set of large, traditional parachutes would probably work better, especially for the later, bigger capsules. The VUSP is eventually going to have its own lunar manned spacecraft, and they'll go for their first lunar landing in the ATL 1980s or 1990s (for now, I've settled for 1996, but I think that might be too late and I might need to eventually retcon it).


Some notes on the VUSP:

The WN-12 "Zodiac" launch vehicle from the mid-to-late 1960s and the animal-carrying Sírius class capsule, the first manned spacecraft of the VUSP

The first VUSP flightsuits, used in the pioneering first manned spaceflight missions aboard the Patria class one-seater capsules

The first space stations of the VUSP (late 1970s and 1980s)

The stations are serviced by the Concord class of manned capsules, the Gemini equivalent and main workhorse of the VUSP during the 1970s and early 1980s, while the lunar capsules are being developed. Yes, in this ATL, a Gemini/Voskhod equivalent is servicing a Skylab/Salyut-like station. Let that sink in ! :D

In the alternate 1990s, there will be talk about the VUSP cooperating with Western Europeans (France, Britain, Germany, Austria) and Romanians on building a spaceplane of their own, or join an increasingly pan-European spaceplane development effort. The spaceplanes of this timeline are humbler than OTL's STS or Buran, and are more in the vein of the Hermes or the Dream Chaser. But there might be bigger spaceplanes some time in the 21st century. ;)

There will also be a joint European-Chinese mission to Mars as early as the ATL 2010s. And it's going to be glorious and serve as the timeline's ultimate epilogue... :cool:

Speaking of the timeline, here's a cheat sheet on how it all got started. In the words of River Song, "Spoilers !".

Color-Copycat said:
Here is something for all the Luft '46 people
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Thanks. Already added it to the list on the reviews page.
 
Petike

Petike

OK, until I make more images directly related to ATL rocketry, here's something smaller that I've already made a few months ago. Some of the photos are more doctored than others. In-universe:

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The "Patria Five", the first five stellonauts of the VUSP

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Rafal "Rafek" Gorski, first Pole and first central European in LEO, father of future first VUSP moonwalker Edward Gorski

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Zdeněk Koutný, first Czech stellonaut in LEO, second Patria manned flight

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Frigyes Kóbor, first Hungarian stellonaut in LEO, third Patria manned flight

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Emil Čerňan, first Slovak stellonaut in LEO, fourth Patria manned flight

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Vsevolod Vasilko, first Transcarpathian stellonaut in LEO, fifth Patria manned flight

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Patria capsule flights post-"Five"

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Orsolya 'Orsi' Jakab, first female and second Hungarian stellonaut in LEO, sixth Patria manned flight

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The "Patria Five" is like the OTL Mercury Seven, though with an obviously more central European flavour. ;) Each of the five astronauts represented one of the five member states of the Visegrad Union. It wasn't merely a PR stunt, since all five countries had worked together on developing a central European launch capability, as well as the various spaceflight technology required for it. Due to a smaller incentive to compete with another country in manned spaceflight, the VUSP took its time. This led to the VUSP's first manned flights being directly to LEO, i.e. more in the vein of Gagarin than Alan Shepard. :) Jakab was the first female stellonaut, as well as the second Hungarian one, and the first LEO traveler after the initial run of the Patria Five. As for the spacesuits worn aboard the Patria capsules, see this link (also provided in my previous post). You can see the flight suits are nicely blueish. :cool: :D However, the photos seen in this post were made somewhat later after the conclusion of the Patria programme. All six of stellonauts are shown here in Concord capsule era spacesuits.

Amusing factoid: The WN-13 "Friday" launcher that carried the Patria class capsules into orbit, is an upgraded development of the previous WN-12 "Zodiac", and both of them look rather similar to an OTL R-7 Semyorka. (Let's just say that a certain Sergey Pavlovich fled Russia once the interwar chaos started settling in... ;)) And the Patria-s, as I've noted earlier, are more Mercury-like than Vostok-like. Yeah, in what has to be the ultimate irony from our OTL perspective, the VUSP is launching an American-looking capsule aboard a Russian-looking rocket. :eek: :D

Popculture trivia note:
The Patria and Concord names for spacecraft, as well as the names of the first VU stellonauts, would later be acknowledged in the long-running Visegrad Space Guard science fiction franchise. (A central European take on the "explore the universe and keep the peace" premise. Basically, this TL's Star Trek.)

Who's who for real, in OTL:
1. Miroslaw "Mirek" Hermaszewki, first Polish astronaut
2. Oldřich Pelczak, backup for first Czech and Czechoslovak astronaut Vladimír Remek
3. Béla Magyari, backup for first Hungarian astronaut Bertalan Farkas
4. Eugene Cernan, who I think needs no introduction (Emil is an ATL and Slovak-born version of him, with the same parents - it's a bit of a TL-191 "Daniel MacArthur instead of Douglas MacArthur" situation)
5. Leonid Ivanovich Popov, Ukrainian astronaut, flew on multiple Salyut programme missions
6. Larisa Grigoriyevna Pozharskaya, Russian astronaut, civilian physician cosmonaut
 
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