Ainu-wank

What are the best PODs for the Ainu to become strong enough to resist Japanization, develop their own national identity, and become their own nation?

Bonus points if this Ainu nation-state expands beyond Hokkaido, Sakhalin and the Kurile Islands.
 
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Presumably they need to adopt Chinese culture themselves to create a separate identity that can last.

And you're thinking too small for a true Ainu wank. It would need Tohoku, Hokkaido, Sakhalin, the Kuriles, Kamchatka, and whatever of the Amur region they can grab, since that's where the Ainu culture is known to have extended to at some point.
 
There are actually Ainu AHC's in the past. Here's an example:
This would essentially require a PoD long before the 8th century BC, which might in turn render the alternate East Asia entirely unrecognizable from that of IOTL. Specifically, the chaos from the Spring and Autumn/Warring States Periods may have caused migrants from China to flee to the archipelago, while later developments led to friction between the Yan and Gojoseon, in which Liaoxi was conquered from the latter, triggering migrations southward into the peninsula, pushing many of the inhabitants eastward into Japan.

In order for the widespread chaos to be butterflied away altogether, China would have had to remain stable for a far longer period of time. This may well have been impossible as remote frontier regions began to assert their independence from the Zhou, making it essentially inevitable that neighboring entities would eventually go to war with each other.

Also, Japanese toponyms are only found in areas south of Pyongyang, with none in Manchuria, which has a high density of Korean ones. Genetic research also suggests that the respective populations in the peninsula and the archipelago may not have changed significantly, suggesting that founder populations gradually assimilated local inhabitants.
 
Presumably they need to adopt Chinese culture themselves to create a separate identity that can last.

And you're thinking too small for a true Ainu wank. It would need Tohoku, Hokkaido, Sakhalin, the Kuriles, Kamchatka, and whatever of the Amur region they can grab, since that's where the Ainu culture is known to have extended to at some point.

They can probably hold Kamchatka, but I think Amur is a big stretch, since they might compete with the steppe tribes there.

@ramones: That's a very radical POD. I personally prefer an ATL East Asia that is still resemble some bits of OTL.
 
They can probably hold Kamchatka, but I think Amur is a big stretch, since they might compete with the steppe tribes there.

Really? It would mainly be the Khabarovsk/Nikolayevsk region as opposed to further inland near the Manchu. Although I suppose their wealth may attract far more attention than was ever given to the local peoples there OTL.
 

PhilippeO

Banned
1 POD ) Japanese (Yamato) botched war with Emishi in 8th century.

with Emishi holding Japanese south of Tohoku for several centuries, Emishi leader/warlord/shaman who flee toward Hokkaido slowly helped Ainu build nation-state with addition of Emishi and Japanese statecraft and military craft. By time Emishi in Tohoku crushed and defeated by Japanese, Hokkaido Ainu had established state strong enough to resist Japanese.

2 POD ) Champa rice failed to spread to Japanese

without Champa rice, Japanese population growth will be slowed, giving chance for Ainu extra several centuries to build kingdom.

3 POD ) Biological POD, some sort of Northern wheat developed by Ainu, giving them population boom before Japanese arrive.
 
2 POD ) Champa rice failed to spread to Japanese

without Champa rice, Japanese population growth will be slowed, giving chance for Ainu extra several centuries to build kingdom.

How exactly important was that? I was under the impression the average Japanese peasant did not normally eat rice because it was too expensive, thus ate other crops for the most part (ironically making many of them stronger and healthier than the nobility due to the nutritional deficiencies of white rice).
 
How exactly important was that? I was under the impression the average Japanese peasant did not normally eat rice because it was too expensive, thus ate other crops for the most part (ironically making many of them stronger and healthier than the nobility due to the nutritional deficiencies of white rice).
In particular, millet.
 

PhilippeO

Banned
How exactly important was that? I was under the impression the average Japanese peasant did not normally eat rice because it was too expensive, thus ate other crops for the most part (ironically making many of them stronger and healthier than the nobility due to the nutritional deficiencies of white rice).

https://books.google.co.id/books?id...r_esc=y#v=onepage&q=japan champa rice&f=false

https://books.google.co.id/books?id...r_esc=y#v=onepage&q=japan champa rice&f=false

after googling, Champa rice probably too late to help Ainu, at 1200s Yamato would be far too advanced for Ainu to fight.

Farmers 'prefers' to sell their rice, and eat millet, they might not always have that option. considering productivity of rice, some farmers would likely eat rice. Especially wetland farmers, which Champa rice can grow, and also apparently Champa rice is not that good, other rice sell for more.
 
Another idea:

The Ainu expand into mainland Asia. Later, when they lose Hokkaido to the Japanese, they shifted focus on their new home, and slowly develops their own civilization. This Ainu nation 's capital can be at OTL Vladivostok.
 
Another idea:

The Ainu expand into mainland Asia. Later, when they lose Hokkaido to the Japanese, they shifted focus on their new home, and slowly develops their own civilization. This Ainu nation 's capital can be at OTL Vladivostok.
Vladivostok was Manchu and the 17th-century Qing preferred to keep it that way.

By the time Hokkaido was lost there was no space for Ainus in Manchuria, and perhaps not even in Siberia thanks to Russians.
 
Another idea:

The Ainu expand into mainland Asia. Later, when they lose Hokkaido to the Japanese, they shifted focus on their new home, and slowly develops their own civilization. This Ainu nation 's capital can be at OTL Vladivostok.

It's a very poor spot compared to Hokkaido or even Sakhalin. China or the Manchu will subjugate them in no time. The Ainu will have to fight to gain control on the mainland, even though they ranged their historically.
 
Vladivostok was Manchu and the 17th-century Qing preferred to keep it that way.

By the time Hokkaido was lost there was no space for Ainus in Manchuria, and perhaps not even in Siberia thanks to Russians.

I'm talking about a earlier POD. Let's say the Ainu were more adventurous, or any valid reason to explore.
 
I'm talking about a earlier POD. Let's say the Ainu were more adventurous, or any valid reason to explore.

Is Khabarovsk and Nikolayesk-na-Amure not good enough? Both historically within Ainu range and easily permanently securable for their culture.
 
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