AHTL:Vox Non Incerta

The Battle of South Africa pt 2
12:00 Graf Spee

With the Goshawk shadowing her, Kapitan Zur See Langsdorf knows that his ship is in range of a British carrier, possibly two. His plan to transfer his prisoners to KMS Altmark no longer viable, Langsdorf orders speed to be increased to 23 knots in the hope of outrunning the Royal Navy.

13:00

The Skuas are the first to get to the Graf Spee. The first three Skuas dive on the pocket battleship out of the sun. The AA on the Graf Spee opens up, but due to the Skuas diving out of the sun, most miss. The lead Skua releases its single 500 lb bomb at a 90° angle. The bomb misses but explodes near midships, sending shrapnel towards and killing members of the AA crew.

The second Skua drops its bomb, but Captain Langsdorf carefully and skilfully weaves through each of the Skua’s dropped bombs. The Swordfish biplane torpedo bombers launched after the Skuas, carrying a single torpedo each, reach the Graf Spee.

The Swordfish utilise a hammer and anvil attack. Four Swordfish launch their torpedoes at 2000 yards while under heavy fire from Graf Spee. Again, Captain Langsdorf carefully and skilfully weaves through each torpedo track. Another four Swordfish drop to wave top height and launch at 1800 yards. Again, the first two torpedoes miss, but the last two hit the ship. Of the two torpedoes does the most damage so far, hitting the rudder propellers and locking the Graf Spee in a 25° turn to port.

HMS Repulse, Exeter and Cumberland close on the stricken pocket battleship. All three ships are told not to sink the Graf Spee as there is a strong possibility of British merchant marine sailors on-board. They can try and do as much damage as possible but do not sink her.

With the Skua dive bombers and Swordfish biplane torpedo bombers leaving, Captain Langsdorf orders the Graf Spee to stop and divers to try and get the rudders unjammed as soon as possible. Unfortunately for the Graf Spee, smoke is spotted on the horizon by the lookouts.

HMS Repulse opens fire with her two forward turrets at 29,500 yards. Four 15 inch shells miss by 2500 yards, scaring the Graf Spee’s crew. Captain Langsdorf orders the divers to be brought back up and the engines that are on idle to be brought back up to full power. While HMS Repulse reloads her forward turrets, HMS Exeter turns to port and Cumberland turns to starboard. Both heavy cruisers fire off broadsides at 12 000 yards. HMS Repulse, now with her two forward turrets reloaded and turning, brings all her guns to bear.
 
The Battle of South Africa pt 3
With HE Shells loaded in her guns and the Graf spee moving at 8 knots and with minimum power to the 11 inch turrets, Repulse opens fire, at 25, 000 yards. Exeter and Cumberland open fire at 12, 000 yards, Between salvoes Exeter launches her float plane to spot fall of shot.

Graf Spee launches her torpedoes at Exeter and Cumberland. Fortunately for Exeter, one hits the armour belt, the other misses by twenty feet. On board Exeter wounded but not out of the fight Captain Fredrick Bell orders a hard turn to port to unleash his 6 x 8-inch guns.

Graf spee, now moving at 14 knots, fires her forward turret at Repulse and her aft turret at the wounded Exeter. Exeter takes 3 AP shells on her bridge and aft turret. Captain Bell signals to Commodore Harwood aboard Repulse: *** Revise list of spares. ***

Commodore Harwood aboard Repulse signals *** Can you make Cape Town? *** On board Exeter Captain Bell signals *** Could make Portsmouth if ordered ***.

Exeter leaves the battle zone and heads for Cape Town. Captain Bill Tennent orders broadside after broadside against the Graf Spee's upper body structure. 8 15 inch shells impact on the upper superstructure killing everyone in A turret. The weight of fire is to much for the stricken pocket battleship, and Captain Langsdorf takes down the Kreigesmarine jack as a sign up of surrender. Before he and his crew enter the lifeboats and before the jack is taken down, the torpedoes are rigged to explode in 10 minutes . Commodore Harwood aboard Repulse signals *** cease fire but Cumberland move in position to take on prisoners but remain at action stations ready to fire ***
 
The finale of The Battle of South Africa pt 4
Captain Langsdorf aboard the Graf Spee announces that it's time to abandon ship and he, his crew and his prisoners are to transfer to HMS Cumberland. Once the crew and prisoners of the Graf Spee are safely aboard Cumberland, Captain Llangsdorf tells Cumberland’s captain that he has rigged his torpedoes to explode. Messages are passed back and forth between Cumberland and Repulse.

The two ship formation heads back to rendezvous with HMS Glorious and the cruisers Ajax and Achilles. The Graf Spee explodes in two and slinks under the warm water of the south Atlantic as Langsdorf takes his Luger out of his jacket pocket.

Four days later, all seven ships are safely in Cape Town. HMS Exeter enters dry dock to patch herself up before heading to Plymouth for major repairs. Captain Langsdorf is buried at sea off the coast of Cape Town in full military honours. Both British and German sailors are in attendance.
 
I think hms revenge was generally in decent condition compared to her sister ships. The one reference I can find to her pushing her engines in 1940 she managed 21.5 knots.

I also think 2 torpedoes was mentioned rather than 3 however I do agree that 18 knots is rather generous.

From what I understand from my research for my TL was that Ramillies and Royal Sovereign were in the best condition. But regardless the main question is what is a realistic sustained speed under good conditions like engines in good form and benign sea states and then what can it do when damaged. Nit picky but that's what we do here.
 
Escorting them are the battleship Revenge, 8 N-class destroyers as ASW escort, and 4 Tribal-class destroyers.

That is a powerful escort, was that normal for troop convoys or is this a difference in your TL?
 
Escorting them are the battleship Revenge, 8 N-class destroyers as ASW escort, and 4 Tribal-class destroyers.

That is a powerful escort, was that normal for troop convoys or is this a difference in your TL?

Normal for troop convoys as german raiders are on the loose .
 
This has implications for Norway. OTL Britain could justify violating Norwegian neutrality to get the POW's from the Altmark because Altmark had not released them when she entered Norwegian waters as per international law. Without those POW's on board it is unlikely the British would go in after Altmark. Assuming of course Altmark gets away from the Glorious.
 
This has implications for Norway. OTL Britain could justify violating Norwegian neutrality to get the POW's from the Altmark because Altmark had not released them when she entered Norwegian waters as per international law. Without those POW's on board it is unlikely the British would go in after Altmark. Assuming of course Altmark gets away from the Glorious.

Not all of the Graf Spee pow was onboard. Most are still on Altmark.
 
Escorting them are the battleship Revenge, 8 N-class destroyers as ASW escort, and 4 Tribal-class destroyers.

That is a powerful escort, was that normal for troop convoys or is this a difference in your TL?

Here's a description of the first troop convoy from Canada to the UK.

The first Canadian troop convoy to sail to Europe, TC 1 on Dec. 10 with 7,400 men in five large ocean liners, had a particularly powerful protection, as might be expected. Four RCN destroyers provided close escort near Nova Scotia, before passing over the duty to the battle cruiser His Majesty’s Ship Repulse, the battleship HMS Resolute and the aircraft carrier HMS Furious for the mid-ocean crossing.

Then at 20 degrees west, TC 1 was met by 12 RN destroyers. In the first winter of the war this type and scale of escort was standard for troop convoys.
 
Graf Spee launches her torpedoes at Exeter and Cumberland. Fortunately for Exeter, one hits the armour belt, the other misses by twenty feet. On board Exeter wounded but not out of the fight Captain Fredrick Bell orders a hard turn to port to unleash his 6 x 8-inch guns.
At 12,000 yards, the torpedo would be lucky to get that far and would be spotted with enough time to dodge.
 
At 12,000 yards, the torpedo would be lucky to get that far and would be spotted with enough time to dodge.
I imagine that they closed more during the engagement. Maybe they were trying to finish Graf Spee off with their own torpedoes and weren't cautious enough, thinking it was crippled (which it was, TBF)?
 
Last edited:
The Hunt for the Altmark pt 1
26th of November 1939

With the Graf Spee sunk Force K leaves Cape Town minus Exeter. Glorious maintains a cap of four Goshawk and launches four Swordfish armed with eight 100lb bombs 'daisy cutters' on search patterns of 250 miles. Altmark who doesn't know that Graf Spee is sunk proceeds towards the coast of Western Africa to rendezvous with the pocket battleship.

On an outward leg of it's search pattern a Swordfish spots a lone ship in the distance. The Swordfish alters course to intercept it. A lookout on the Altmark spots the shadowing plane, Altmark's captain changes course due north in an attempt to get away from their shadow.

A sighting report is received onboard Glorious, Rear Admiral Harwood who transferred his flag while in Cape Town immediately order,s Ajax and Achilles to intercept the merchant ship. Information gained from members of the Graf Spee crew after they were pulled from the water mentioned that their resupply ship was due to meet with the pocket battleship off the coast of western Africa.
 
The hunt for the Altmark pt 2
14:30 hours

Onboard Altmark the captain certain that his stalker has returned to the carrier which he knows that is in the area decides to head out into the South Atlantic. The rendezvous with the Graf Spee postponed for the moment till he has lost the carrier.

Ajax and Achilles steaming at 24 knots launch their respective float planes on search patterns of 100 miles. Unfortunately for the Ajax and Achilles their planes miss Altmark by 40 miles and the tanker escapes into the South Atlantic.
 
Convoy TC2 pt 1
2nd December 1939

The second troop convoy of Canadian troops leave's Halifax Nova Scotia consisting of five fast liners carrying 7400 men consisting members of the 48th Highlanders of Canada regiment and Ontario (Black Cats) regiment. Escorting the troop ships out of Canadian water's are four Royal Canadian Navy destroyers who will hand over escort to the Royal Navy.

Part of the escort for the crossing of the mid Atlantic consists of the battlecruiser Repulse, battleship Resolute and the carrier Argus. With the hand over of the five fast liners Argus launches four Swordfish on anti submarine patrol.
 
Last edited:
Here's a description of the first troop convoy from Canada to the UK.

The first Canadian troop convoy to sail to Europe, TC 1 on Dec. 10 with 7,400 men in five large ocean liners, had a particularly powerful protection, as might be expected. Four RCN destroyers provided close escort near Nova Scotia, before passing over the duty to the battle cruiser His Majesty’s Ship Repulse, the battleship HMS Resolute and the aircraft carrier HMS Furious for the mid-ocean crossing.

Then at 20 degrees west, TC 1 was met by 12 RN destroyers. In the first winter of the war this type and scale of escort was standard for troop convoys.

Thanks, similar to convoys carrying US troops after Pearl Harbor.
 
Fast convoys did roughly 12 knots max, usually less, whereas Argus could do ~18 when WW2 began, and CVE’s weren’t fast either
Troop convoys were faster than fast convoys.

That said if you slow down the convoy enough to be escorted by an r class battleship it's slow enough to be escorted by an old carrier. I think it would be more normal to just escort with fast cruisers and maybe a battlecruiser for part of the route unless there's a specific threat.
 
Troop convoys were faster than fast convoys.

That said if you slow down the convoy enough to be escorted by an r class battleship it's slow enough to be escorted by an old carrier. I think it would be more normal to just escort with fast cruisers and maybe a battlecruiser for part of the route unless there's a specific threat.

Resolute could hit 18 knots in 1939 just so not to slow
 
Top