AHTL: The battle of the Atlantic

Some Suggestions if I may. No way will Belfast head anywhere, Though Scapa was a fairly bare base in 1939 it had been a fleet base throughout the first world war and their are shore facilities, There is also a radar station, naval air abase and at least one RAF airfield. There is at least one civilian hospital r Kirkwall and medical facilities at the bases on the islands. also there is no way HMS Belfast is heading for the Humber, that is completely nonsensical. If she left Scapa at all she would head for Rosyth in the Firth of Forth. This is a fully equipped Royal naval dockyard and naval base with all the medical facilities required, Edinburgh, with all its hospitals and other facilities is just across the Firth of Forth. This story has an interesting start but I would suggest a little research on RN bases in 1939 and a quick look at some maps! PM me if you wish.

Thank you for the ideas and I will have to pick your brain so to speak.
 
Part 8
16th October 1939

With the survivors from Royal Oak and Pegasus safely in hospitals around Edinburgh, HMS Belfast enters Dry Dock for a quick refit, Part of the quick refit is the installation of a radar set to aid her gun crew's and her plot room. Also entering Dry Dock is the Heavy cruiser Norfolk who suffered damage from a torpedo that missed Royal Oak from u-47.
 
Some Suggestions if I may. No way will Belfast head anywhere, Though Scapa was a fairly bare base in 1939 it had been a fleet base throughout the first world war and their are shore facilities, There is also a radar station, naval air abase and at least one RAF airfield. There is at least one civilian hospital r Kirkwall and medical facilities at the bases on the islands. also there is no way HMS Belfast is heading for the Humber, that is completely nonsensical. If she left Scapa at all she would head for Rosyth in the Firth of Forth. This is a fully equipped Royal naval dockyard and naval base with all the medical facilities required, Edinburgh, with all its hospitals and other facilities is just across the Firth of Forth. This story has an interesting start but I would suggest a little research on RN bases in 1939 and a quick look at some maps! PM me if you wish.

Yes, what he said :)

Unload the men at Scapa, anyone bad enough to need a mainland hospital needs more than being shoved into a cruiser for the trip.
Cordite fires are unlikely to force a scuttling - cordite burns, it doesn't explode. The ship will sink anyway, it was a WW1 design with relatively poor underwater protection.
Not sure if Prien couldmake it out with damage, it would depend how bad it was. This time they will be watching for a sub, and even if he gets out he may well meet a destroyer waiting for him - its not like he has a lot of exit options. In RL they weren't sure it was a sub until he'd got away.
 
Yes, what he said :)

Unload the men at Scapa, anyone bad enough to need a mainland hospital needs more than being shoved into a cruiser for the trip.
Cordite fires are unlikely to force a scuttling - cordite burns, it doesn't explode. The ship will sink anyway, it was a WW1 design with relatively poor underwater protection.
Not sure if Prien couldmake it out with damage, it would depend how bad it was. This time they will be watching for a sub, and even if he gets out he may well meet a destroyer waiting for him - its not like he has a lot of exit options. In RL they weren't sure it was a sub until he'd got away.

AP shell through and through the conning tower and damage from shells missing too close and i will have to edit the battle. Thank you both for the replies
 
7th October 1939

The German Naval staff concerned about the mounting pressure on the two pocket battleships, orders units of the German fleet lead by the battlecruiser Sharnhorst along with the light cruiser koln and nine destroyers sortie towards the southern coast of Norway. The plan is to draw the home fleet across a line of four U-boats and into range of land based bombers of the Luftwaffe.

As soon as Admiral Forbes learns that the major units of the krigesmarine are attempting to break out into the north Atlantic, he issues orders for his main units north-east of the Shetlands where they could cover the exits to the Atlantic. These where the battleships Rodney and Nelson, the battlecruisers Hood and Repulse, the cruisers Aurora, Sheffield and Newcastle, the carrier HMS Furious along with twelve destroyers.

During the night HMS Furious along with HMS Repulse, Sheffield and four destroyers detach from the battle group and head south towards southern Norway. At day break Furious turns into the wind and lunches four Skuas for combat air patrol and four Swordfish tbr,s on a 100 mile search vectors. At 1015 a swordfish spots the German battlecruiser Sharnhorst and three destroyers escorting her. The swordfish manages to make a sighting report before a Ju 88 flying a recon mission sends it spiralling towards the water. On board HMS Furious catches the sighting report and launches 30 swordfish bi plane torpedo bombers carrying torpedoes, the Swordfish are ordered to put as many torpedoes into the Sharnhorst and Koln as possible.

11:10

On board Sharnhorst Admiral lutjens orders the group to retreat to Kiel and to get back under Luftwaffe air cover. With the Swordfish having missed their chance to deal a blow to the Germans, return to Furious. The operation is fruitless and with the Germans under fighter protection Admiral Arthur Dowding retreats back to Loch Ewe. During all this both the RAF and Luftwaffe bombers fail to find their targets and by the 11th October both the Krigesmarine and the Home Fleet are safely back in port.

Query: you have Repulse chasing the Graf Spee, previous post, and this post, off the Shetlands at the same time ?

Are Graf Spee, and Deutchland I different areas this tl v otl ?
 
15th October 1939

After a long and arduous journey which U-47 severely damaged and with half the crew injured or severely shaken and under heavy fog and low cloud cover arrives in Kiel to a hero's welcome, as soon as U-47 docks the crew are taken off to hospital, within minutes of the crew evacuating the U-boat already sitting low in the water sinks at the dock side. Admiral Donitz and three high ranking Krigesmarine Officers congratulates Prein for sinking both Royal Oak and the battlecruiser renown. Prein is awarded a knights cross for the mission.

The group consisting of the light cruisers Belfast and Newcastle and two destroyers enter Rosyth. The wounded survivors are taken off and taken to hospitals in Edinburgh . Rear Admiral Henry Blargrove is taken to the Train station and put on a train heading for London with his entire staff.
Not too sure how good German intelligence is but the RN would most likely announce the loss of Pegasus as she is out of date anyway, but not Royal Oak. Misinformation and all that. A quick overflight the following day would give the Germans an idea that two ships had gone down however, and with Pegasus announced and a Revenge Class missing, it won't take much to get the answer.
 
Cordite fires are unlikely to force a scuttling - cordite burns, it doesn't explode

I'll point out that Cordite does burn hella hot though. Cordite isn't designed to explode but as you said it burns, but burns VERY quickly and very very hot indeed, its so quick you could call its more an explosion than a fire. And to point out how hot it can burn, when HMS Defence sunk at Jutland she was gone in seconds. When they found her wreck and did a proper survey of it, she was oddly enough in quite good condition and shape, apart from the fact that she'd blown out her lower hull. Not through her magazines exploding, but because the cordite flash fired and melted its way through the hull so quickly that she sunk like a dropped brick. So it could well cause a scuttling, if it gets out of control the heat will either soften the hull plating enough that it gives way and she'll flood, or it gets hot enough to heat up somewhere like the shell room and threaten the shells themselves.

Also this is off to a good start :) It'll be interesting to see where you take this :) Its a shame the Royal Oak was sunk, she was the only R class ship that had recived any form of serious modernization and was in the best material condition of the whole class.

Also re the U-47 getting a 6-inch round through the conning tower as well as those close straddles, if the hit on the CT didn't fuse (which seems to be the case here) then its still going to do a lot of damage, the kinetic impact would be transferred down through the hull and probably cause merry hell with any fittings, and this would also be replicated with any shells landing close enough to miss in the straddle, those shockwaves would be battering the hull. There's probably been casualties in the U-47's command section and i'd not be surprised if she didn't get out but either sunk or ran aground, the periscopes are destroyed and they've only got charts now but you need visual ID to help you out.
 
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BlondieBC

Banned
14th September 1939

The opening shots of the longest battlefield of ww2 begins with u39 firing four torpedos at the aircraft carrier ARK ROYAL lucky all four detonate early. The destroyers escorting ark royal manage to drive the u-boat deep while ark royal launches two swordfish bi plane torpedo bombers carrying two depth charges each are vectored onto the U-boat. Both swordfish drop their depth charges, instead of sinking u-boat surfaces and the crew are taken prisoner but not before the crew scuttle the u-39.

Three days later on the 17th the Royal Navies luck runs out when u-29 fires three torpedoes at HMS courageous west of the English Channel, Two detonate early but the third hits the carrier causing the carrier to slow to 12 knots, u-29 escapes hounded by two of the four destroyers escorting her. Her two remaining escorts shepherd the stricken carrier into Portsmouth harbour. With 78 dead and 130 injured the carrier is immediately dry docked and repairs to be hull is started, the goal is to get her patched up so she can be repaired away from the south coast.

The immediate result is the all fleet carriers are taken from ASW operations.

So is your POD the "Germans fixed the torpedoes"? with the ASW being the first major butterfly?
 
So is your POD the "Germans fixed the torpedoes"? with the ASW being the first major butterfly?

The shots by Prein on this timeline are the same as out time line. As is the damage to Royal Oak. The difference is the call to General Quarters, getting the crew awakened moving saves numerous lives. The cruiser's reaction and and the damage to U-47 are different. The fact that the sub is a constructive loss is anothef pOD butterfly. All the ships sunk by the U-47 will have butterflied fates, as will Prein's life and career from now on.
 
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I'll point out that Cordite does burn hella hot though. Cordite isn't designed to explode but as you said it burns, but burns VERY quickly and very very hot indeed, its so quick you could call its more an explosion than a fire. And to point out how hot it can burn, when HMS Defence sunk at Jutland she was gone in seconds. When they found her wreck and did a proper survey of it, she was oddly enough in quite good condition and shape, apart from the fact that she'd blown out her lower hull. Not through her magazines exploding, but because the cordite flash fired and melted its way through the hull so quickly that she sunk like a dropped brick. So it could well cause a scuttling, if it gets out of control the heat will either soften the hull plating enough that it gives way and she'll flood, or it gets hot enough to heat up somewhere like the shell room and threaten the shells themselves.

Also this is off to a good start :) It'll be interesting to see where you take this :) Its a shame the Royal Oak was sunk, she was the only R class ship that had recived any form of serious modernization and was in the best material condition of the whole class.

Also re the U-47 getting a 6-inch round through the conning tower as well as those close straddles, if the hit on the CT didn't fuse (which seems to be the case here) then its still going to do a lot of damage, the kinetic impact would be transferred down through the hull and probably cause merry hell with any fittings, and this would also be replicated with any shells landing close enough to miss in the straddle, those shockwaves would be battering the hull. There's probably been casualties in the U-47's command section and i'd not be surprised if she didn't get out but either sunk or ran aground, the periscopes are destroyed and they've only got charts now but you need visual ID to help you out.


The damage cordite causes when burning depends a lot on how its confined. If it is, it can (as said) do a lot of damage. If it isnt, you can toast marshmallows on it....
So its one of those things that is going to be different in each case.
 
The damage cordite causes when burning depends a lot on how its confined. If it is, it can (as said) do a lot of damage. If it isnt, you can toast marshmallows on it....
So its one of those things that is going to be different in each case.

If it's packed poorly and by 17-18 year olds would it still cause damage to the hull?
 
If it's packed poorly and by 17-18 year olds would it still cause damage to the hull?

To be honest, can't say. You could toss a dice...:D

Mind, having watched them dispose of cordite by piling it up and setting fire to it (this was, admittedly, in the 60's when Whale Island weren't really into Elfin Safety), it didn't look that bad...
 
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