AHQ: Were the Ming ever more technologically advanced than Europe?

So from lurking and reading historical discussions I’ve both heard that Ming Dynasty was more technologically advanced than Western Europe and the opposite.

I’d like to hear your opinions on this topic. If the Ming were more technologically advanced than Western Europe I’d also like to ask from some more knowledged people in history when did it lose that edge.

Even though this is not the primary question, other discussions on other eras/dynasties of China technologically and economically compared to Europe and other regions of the world would be appreciated.

Western Europe: Britain, France, Germany, Italy and Iberia.
 
At this time, Europe had paper, printing, gunpowder and cannons already, the Ming's tech tree was lacking electricity and the steam machine... what's left besides porcelain?
 
Tech trees don’t exist outside of your gaming PC. Not to mention... who exactly has electricity and the steam machine between 1368 and 1644?

By that I meant: Since the Ming didn't have these, they couldn't be ahead in these areas either.

And while it's an abstract concept, tech trees make kinda sense. For pretty much every invention you need other inventions and concepts to build on.
 
By that I meant: Since the Ming didn't have these, they couldn't be ahead in these areas either.

And while it's an abstract concept, tech trees make kinda sense. For pretty much every invention you need other inventions and concepts to build on.
Nah "tech trees" are an abstraction meant for gameplay, not a sociological concept, the Incas didn't had writing or a concept of money and finances, yet created one of the most sophisticated empires of their time, African tribes discovered iron working while the Near East was on the Bronze Age and stuff can go on and on.
 
Nah "tech trees" are an abstraction meant for gameplay, not a sociological concept, the Incas didn't had writing or a concept of money and finances, yet created one of the most sophisticated empires of their time, African tribes discovered iron working while the Near East was on the Bronze Age and stuff can go on and on.
Actually the Incas had finances and record keeping just not coins and script.
 
Nah "tech trees" are an abstraction meant for gameplay, not a sociological concept, the Incas didn't had writing or a concept of money and finances, yet created one of the most sophisticated empires of their time

Actually, the Incas developed a writing system which was perfectly suited for the totalitarian regimes and to which the Nazi and Soviets would probably gladly switch if it was feasible. It was enough just to re-tie few knots to change the written history. No need to confiscate and burn the books or to cut off the "wrong" parts out of them. Just think about time and effort saved. Clearly shows that technological backwardness is not the same as "stupidity". :winkytongue:
 
At this time, Europe had paper, printing, gunpowder and cannons already, the Ming's tech tree was lacking electricity and the steam machine... what's left besides porcelain?

China had paper, the printing press was invented in Korea and spread to China first, they literally invented gunpowder and cannon.
 
China had paper, the printing press was invented in Korea and spread to China first, they literally invented gunpowder and cannon.
Paper, gunpowder, and quite a few other integral technologies were indeed developed in China long before Europe even heard rumors of those inventions.

However, the OP's primary question specifies the Ming dynasty and Europe from the 14th to the 17th centuries, not ancient China (the secondary question would be an easy 'Yes', China had the above technologies long before Europe adopted them).

Considering the Ming dynasty saw Chinese generals purchasing quite a few western armaments from the Portuguese (the Red Barbarian Cannon, for example), it's fair to assume that, while the first cannons were Chinese inventions, Europeans pulled ahead in ballistics technology either during or before the Ming dynasty era.

Other areas, especially naval technology, is a bit contested (mainly due to Zheng He's treasure fleet), but the Ming were still able to repel Portuguese and Dutch fleets in naval battles up until the end, so, even if the Ming did fall behind in naval technology later on, there wasn't enough of a gap to hinder the Chinese to any great extent (as would happen later in the Qing dynasty).
 
Ming lasted from 1368-1644, during which Europe eclipsed China, thus the answer is a bit complicated. China was way ahead in iron technology for a long time. Cast iron was invented in 5th century BC and was not used in Europe until the 15th century. They had iron puddling for making wrought iron which was not known in Europe until early 18th century. Even the Bessemer process of steel making was in use. Agricultural technology was another area. They had the mouldboard plow and seed drill with millennium and a half lead.

That said Europe was ahead in mechanical clocks, glassware, eyeglasses even in early Ming. By late Ming, Europe was well ahead in science thanks to the Scentific Revolution, and ahead in military technology, optics. The only things Europe couldn’t do by then was puddling iron and porcelain AFAIK. Overall I would say by mid-Ming, say 1500, things were more or less at parity.
 
Tech trees don’t exist outside of your gaming PC. Not to mention... who exactly has electricity and the steam machine between 1368 and 1644?

Relevant:

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Not sure if deep well drilling was done in 16th or 17th Century Ming China. By the 19th Century deep wells were not uncommon in the salt industry. By the mid 19th Century some of the salt well operations had figured out they could run the well deeper and tap into the possible gas pockets, then use the natural gas to speed the water evaporation from the salt. But, I don't know if any of that was in place in the Ming era.

How did the two compare in skill at canal building in those Centuries?
 
Not sure if deep well drilling was done in 16th or 17th Century Ming China. By the 19th Century deep wells were not uncommon in the salt industry. By the mid 19th Century some of the salt well operations had figured out they could run the well deeper and tap into the possible gas pockets, then use the natural gas to speed the water evaporation from the salt. But, I don't know if any of that was in place in the Ming era.

How did the two compare in skill at canal building in those Centuries?

The 16th century according to this:

https://csegrecorder.com/articles/view/ancient-chinese-drilling

The Italians started building the first canal lock in the late 14th century. Locks were widespread in China during the Song dynasty a few centuries earlier. According to Angus Maddison Europeans already had a somewhat higher per capita GDP in this period. China of course was much more populous and they could do things on a larger scale with the same tech. Longer canals, more locks etc. An exception could be found in the windmill. European tower mills were more efficient than Chinese horizontal mills, and built more of them.
 
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