AHQ: Trebizond - Georgian ally, tributary or vassal?

What was Trebizond's relationship in relation to Georgia?

  • Ally

    Votes: 17 73.9%
  • Tributary

    Votes: 3 13.0%
  • Vassal

    Votes: 3 13.0%

  • Total voters
    23
  • Poll closed .
In one of my other threads, I asked about the relationship between the Empire of Trebizond and the Kingdom of Georgia, but received no answer, so maybe I should ask here.

What I'm trying to find out, either historically or in other peoples' opinion, what was the relationship between Trebizond and Georgia in the 13th century, especially in the period between the battles of Kose Dag and Ain Jalut? Were they allies, or was Trebizond more of a tributary or vassal to Georgia?

Basically, who wore the pants in the relationship? Any thoughts?
 

Marc

Donor
Extremely short answer:

Georgia was critical to the secession of Trebizond and likely the dominant neighbor for the first few decades.
Once the Mongols wreck Georgia circa 1238, their influence over Trebizond is fairly minor, if any.
They (Georgia) recover in the 1330's - just as Trebizond is under going a tragic family struggle - and they apparently were playing some role.
That lasts until Timur conquers them in his usual pulverizing way.
They are both dying during the 15th century, their mutual relationship is almost immaterial.
 
Extremely short answer:

Georgia was critical to the secession of Trebizond and likely the dominant neighbor for the first few decades.
Once the Mongols wreck Georgia circa 1238, their influence over Trebizond is fairly minor, if any.
They (Georgia) recover in the 1330's - just as Trebizond is under going a tragic family struggle - and they apparently were playing some role.
That lasts until Timur conquers them in his usual pulverizing way.
They are both dying during the 15th century, their mutual relationship is almost immaterial.

Okay. Thanks.
 

Marc

Donor
Had Trebizond and Georgia united, could it have become a great power?

Again, extremely short answer:

Trebizond on the Pontus, the country, had perhaps at peak around 350,000 souls, much less after the Black Death (Trebizond was one of the first cities very hard hit).
Georgia may have had around 700,000 to 1,000,000. (Extrapolating from their military manpower.)
United - extremely unlikely, Trebizond to the end thought of themselves as being Roman, Georgia never - at best would have been another minor state to be slapped roughly around, if a challenging expiation.
 
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Honestly if Trebizond are going to survive, I can only see them succeed through cutting a deal for vassalage early with the Ottomans. If try survives as a vassal, they will likely be conquered/liberated by Russia in the early 19th century, and this will also lead to Russia controlling Wilsonian Armenia.
 
In feudalism in Western Europe, don't vassals pay a sliver of their taxes to the overlord? So tributary and vassals both pay.
 
Honestly if Trebizond are going to survive, I can only see them succeed through cutting a deal for vassalage early with the Ottomans. If try survives as a vassal, they will likely be conquered/liberated by Russia in the early 19th century, and this will also lead to Russia controlling Wilsonian Armenia.

Trebizond existence has too much butterflies you're forgetting.
 
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