AHChallenge: Chopsticks in Europe

[pa_dutch]

Chopsticks. They're a Chinese invention, and overseas Han Chinese communities have taken them everywhere from Singapore to San Francisco. They've also found their way into the traditional cultures of Korea, Japan, Vietnam, and are often used for noodle dishes in Myanmar, Laos, and Thailand. Uyghurs, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, and Tajiks in Xinjiang, which are traditionally hand-eating cultures, use chopsticks to eat laghman and other noodles, while their counterparts across the border in Kazakhstan, Kygyzstan, and Tajikistan twirl their noodles around forks in the same fashion as Westerners eating spaghetti. The same is true for Mongols - In Inner Mongolia, a formal banquet usually calls for chopsticks, while across the border a knife and fork are the standard in restaurants.

So, as for the challenge: Without significantly changing the demographics of a country through mass immigration or other means, get the majority population of a European country to adopt chopsticks as their main eating utensil. Russians eating pelmeni with chopsticks? Italians grabbing pasta with chopsticks? Portuguese and feijoada? POD is after 1400 CE.

 

[Tripledot]

Maybe the kebab could become more popular and evolve into chopsticks? I think the main problem you'd have to deal with would be having portions that wouldn't need to be cut with a knife to eat (so butterfly stuff like steaks somehow). Don't know what you'd do about a staple like bread, though- you can't exactly eat it with chopsticks.

 

[zeppelinair]

The barbaric Europeans realise their uncivilised ways cannot continue for longer and begin importing large quantities of chopsticks from the civilised part of the world.



In all seriousness, it's hard unless their staple foods become more wieldy and easier to use chopsticks for. I wouldn't, for instance, insist on using chopsticks for a steak.

 

[Londinium]

Perhaps have whoever introduced pasta to the West have ALSO stressed the need for chopsticks to consume it. It seems almost as soon as pasta became popular, so did the fork suddenly become a more vital piece of tableware and less of a decorative curio so maybe in doing that, this would have done away with forks.

 

[Lalli]

Perhaps have whoever introduced pasta to the West have ALSO stressed the need for chopsticks to consume it. It seems almost as soon as pasta became popular, so did the fork suddenly become a more vital piece of tableware and less of a decorative curio so maybe in doing that, this would have done away with forks.

Pasta is Italian invention, not Chinese.

 

[ZhugeLiang]

Pasta is Italian invention, not Chinese.

I've heard some people say that Marco Polo created pasta when he returned from China. Not sure about how truthful this is, but...

 

[ZhugeLiang]

Perhaps have whoever introduced pasta to the West have ALSO stressed the need for chopsticks to consume it. It seems almost as soon as pasta became popular, so did the fork suddenly become a more vital piece of tableware and less of a decorative curio so maybe in doing that, this would have done away with forks.

Perhaps Marco Polo brings them back as well, saying that chopsticks help with noodles or pasta?

 

[Lalli]

I've heard some people say that Marco Polo created pasta when he returned from China. Not sure about how truthful this is, but...

This is common myth. Actually Italians knew pasta centuries before Polo was even born or even long time before Venice was exist. Romans had some prototype of pasta. Polo haven't even claimed that he has introruced pasta to Europe. He has eaten something pasta like food in China but pasta he didn't introruce to Italy.

 

[ZhugeLiang]

This is common myth. Actually Italians knew pasta centuries before Polo was even born or even long time before Venice was exist. Romans had some prototype of pasta. Polo haven't even claimed that he has introruced pasta to Europe. He has eaten something pasta like food in China but pasta he didn't introruce to Italy.

I read somewhere that the Etruscans did something with pasta-like things, too.

 

[pa_dutch]

Even if Marco Polo introduced noodles to Europe (which he didn't - boiled dough features in early Italian, Greek, and Middle Eastern cuisines long before he was around), the POD is too early. My POD is after the formal age of discovery.

The barbaric Europeans realise their uncivilised ways cannot continue for longer and begin importing large quantities of chopsticks from the civilised part of the world.



In all seriousness, it's hard unless their staple foods become more wieldy and easier to use chopsticks for. I wouldn't, for instance, insist on using chopsticks for a steak.

I agree that chopsticks are unweildy for consuming large pieces of meat - as some people do here in Xinjiang, with large bones even, all out of a refusal to use their hands the way such foods were originally eaten.

I do find, however, that small-shaped pastas such as penne, tortellini, farfelle, fusilli, and so on, are more compatible with chopsticks than with forks or spoons... Spaghetti and linguini can be consumed either way with minimal difficulty.

 

[ZhugeLiang]

The barbaric Europeans realise their uncivilised ways cannot continue for longer and begin importing large quantities of chopsticks from the civilised part of the world.



In all seriousness, it's hard unless their staple foods become more wieldy and easier to use chopsticks for. I wouldn't, for instance, insist on using chopsticks for a steak.

I tried eating steak with chopsticks.

Instead of cutting open the steak, the chopstick broke in half.

 

[Demothenes]

This might be a biased point of view, as i've never gotten the hang of using chopsticks, but I feel as though they fill the same role as a fork, but less effectively. It seems like chopsticks are more a symbol of east asian culture.

 

[Tripledot]

This might be a biased point of view, as i've never gotten the hang of using chopsticks, but I feel as though they fill the same role as a fork, but less effectively. It seems like chopsticks are more a symbol of east asian culture.

I think chopsticks are far more efficient for eating rice (well, sticky rice) with than forks or spoons. In a food culture based around rice as a staple, it makes sense to use chopsticks. I don't think that chopsticks actually serve a purpose directly analogous to forks either- you can't really eat chunks of meat in a stew using a fork, and chopsticks aren't really meant for skewering food in the first place.

If you look at an image like this:

You might see why chopsticks would be preferable to a fork and knife.

 

[Joyeux]

The only western cuisines which I can think chopsticks would be suitable for involve pasta and diced meats and vegetables, which leads me to think of pasta dishes, kebabs (if the skewer or bread is absent), and paella. Stews, soups, and big chunks of meat aren't really suitable. So I guess that they'd be limited toa few dishes of Mediterranean cuisines, but I can't really see common people adopting chopsticks for their paella and maintaining other utensils (or lack thereof) for everything else. I could see chopsticks being used for those sorts of dishes amongst the upper classes and in very formal situations though.

How to go about that? I don't know. Perhaps they are brought back by the Portuguese? That would seem like the most direct route.

 

[zeppelinair]

If you look at an image like this:
You might see why chopsticks would be preferable to a fork and knife.

Yeahh, let's try eating that dry seaweed with a fork...
definitely more than a symbol.

 

[TinyTartar]

Perhaps a peaceful Roman-Parthian frontier that allowed the Silk Road to go more smoothly and uninterrupted? You do this, and more Chinese goods will go west, and more merchants along with them, bringing Chinese foods along with them (and the other way, as well, maybe leading to Chinese wine?).

Contact and cross cultural exchanges usually are pretty damn easy when it comes to food, and perhaps noodles become vogue among the Roman elite for whatever reason, necessitating chop sticks. Because whelks and shellfish were all the rage among the peak Han years among the Roman elite, some sort of earlier trend towards seafood may leave a fad vacuum for the Chinese noodle to exploit, bringing the chopstick with it, and from there, it grows.

 

[CountPeter]

The barbaric Europeans realise their uncivilised ways cannot continue for longer and begin importing large quantities of chopsticks from the civilised part of the world.



In all seriousness, it's hard unless their staple foods become more wieldy and easier to use chopsticks for. I wouldn't, for instance, insist on using chopsticks for a steak.

What foods are easier to eat with chopsticks as opposed to a knife/spoon/fork? This is sort of my problem with this challenge, I'm a chinese food enthusiast who cooks it from scratch all the time with an ornate set of chopsticks, and even rice noodles (if I'm honest) are easier to eat with a fork.

 

[zeppelinair]

What foods are easier to eat with chopsticks as opposed to a knife/spoon/fork? This is sort of my problem with this challenge, I'm a chinese food enthusiast who cooks it from scratch all the time with an ornate set of chopsticks, and even rice noodles (if I'm honest) are easier to eat with a fork.

I think it's just dependent on what we're used to. Sometimes I wish I can use my chopsticks for spaghetti.

But boiled vegetable-based side dishes tend to be easier to eat with chopsticks than forks, I think, because they're just smaller and a fork can be quite unwieldy.

 

[CountPeter]

I think chopsticks are far more efficient for eating rice (well, sticky rice) with than forks or spoons. In a food culture based around rice as a staple, it makes sense to use chopsticks. I don't think that chopsticks actually serve a purpose directly analogous to forks either- you can't really eat chunks of meat in a stew using a fork, and chopsticks aren't really meant for skewering food in the first place.

If you look at an image like this:
You might see why chopsticks would be preferable to a fork and knife.

...why can't you eat chunks of meat in a stew with a fork? Guests of mine tend to use a fork with 0 difficulty and a spoon for the broth? And as said earlier, I'm a chinese good enthusiast and love chopsticks, but that picture just makes me think "you wouldn't have any difficulty grabbing things with a fork, certainly no more than native indian food (as opposed to Anglo-indian food ) which does it fine.

 

[zeppelinair]

...why can't you eat chunks of meat in a stew with a fork? Guests of mine tend to use a fork with 0 difficulty and a spoon for the broth? And as said earlier, I'm a chinese good enthusiast and love chopsticks, but that picture just makes me think "you wouldn't have any difficulty grabbing things with a fork, certainly no more than native indian food (as opposed to Anglo-indian food ) which does it fine.

I actually use both chopsticks and spoon with my left hand, so trying to use a fork and knife is quite unwieldy. I usually use an ipad or read a book with my right.