AHC: Worst race relations post-Civil Rights Act?

gtg
Bumping. Any further suggestions for how things could go down the tubes, and could they be repaired?

Okay, this one might require some earlier divergence and possible some alien space bats too, but imagine that instead of going to war with Vietnam, the US would fight the communist domino theory in Africa... I know there have been some proxy wars in Zaire and Angola, and I doubt that any African nation could hold out very long without a big communist neighbor like China. Still, if instead of packing all our black boys and white boys into the same swift-boat and then send them out to fight yellow commies, we would send our white boys off to fight black commies while still not quite sure what to do with our black draftees... I think that might set back race relations for some time.
 
on a likewise string: What if instead of Irak - for whatever reason ASB's included - the US went to chase Islamic terrorists in Somalia? Could the constant news coverage of black-skinned insurgents blasting our hum-vees with cell-phone triggered improvised bombs affect the mood at 'the homefront'?
I can easily see everybody getting nervous if the black kid next to you playing with his cell phone suddenly starts speaking in a language you don't understand. And I can easily see the cases of (predominantly white) police officers shooting black youghts skyrocket.
 
Reading through a lot of (Franco-Belgian) comics from the 1970's -early 80's it was pretty much a given trope that if you wanted a post apocalyptic setting for your story, the explanation for the situation always was:"Yea, the race riots in the US turned into a full blown war, and civilization collapsed". Although none of the books ever went into specifics. It was just the most plausible scenario at that time.

So yea, race relations could have gotten worse.

I can't remember the name of the book, But years ago I had a pulp novel that came out (around 1970) purporting a race war in the USA. Black nationalists seizing control of Manhattan Island (pulp novel remember) and declaring it "a Black Homeland". The only thing notable about it was the extreme political silliness. Such supreme anti-american self-flagellation that you had to believe the author would have blamed American Imperialism for all the world's sins starting on July 4th 1776:rolleyes:

In some ways the author's book reminded me of Irving Wallace's "The Man". Though Wallace's work was outstanding, neither he nor the pulp novelist knew ANYTHING about national security or military affairs.

gtg

Okay, this one might require some earlier divergence and possible some alien space bats too, but imagine that instead of going to war with Vietnam, the US would fight the communist domino theory in Africa... I know there have been some proxy wars in Zaire and Angola, and I doubt that any African nation could hold out very long without a big communist neighbor like China. Still, if instead of packing all our black boys and white boys into the same swift-boat and then send them out to fight yellow commies, we would send our white boys off to fight black commies while still not quite sure what to do with our black draftees... I think that might set back race relations for some time.

The history of the Cold War was that the US would only get involved in Black African strife by proxy, and if the time came for boots on the ground, that would be left to the former european colonial powers responsible for those countries before their independence. The sole exception being Liberia, since it was founded by the USA.

on a likewise string: What if instead of Irak - for whatever reason ASB's included - the US went to chase Islamic terrorists in Somalia? Could the constant news coverage of black-skinned insurgents blasting our hum-vees with cell-phone triggered improvised bombs affect the mood at 'the homefront'?
I can easily see everybody getting nervous if the black kid next to you playing with his cell phone suddenly starts speaking in a language you don't understand. And I can easily see the cases of (predominantly white) police officers shooting black youghts skyrocket.

No ties between American Blacks and Somalis. Even regarding the days of the Slave Trade, almost no American Blacks have any ancestry at all from Somalia. Mostly Western, Southern, and Southeastern Africa.
 
Here's two quickies:
1) Reagan wins in 1968. Essentially we get President George Wallace (R-CA).

Why do people always assume that just because Reagan was a conservative, he was a racist? The same Reagan whose parents refused to let him see Birth of a Nation because they told him it of its bigoted message? The same Reagan who proudly played alongside black teammates at Eureka college, and invited them to stay with him when local hotels refused them? The same Reagan who defended black actors in Hollywood and as Governor of California appointed more African Americans to positions than all of his predecessors combined?

Say what you will about his policies or politics, but Ronald Reagan was no racist.
 
Reagan was perfectly willing to use dogwhistle politics and presided over the rise of mass incarceration but he isn't quite George Wallace, no.

That being said I don't think Reagan '68 would result in a much worse 2015. Though to be honest given how in flux American and world politics are from '68-'83, and given Reagan in the 1960s isn't as honed as he is in the 1980s, he could easily fumble and flush the New Right.

Getting Reagan elected in '68 I think is pretty tough as is. Reagan in '68 I don't think is skilled enough to pull a national campaign. I heard Reagan's team in '68 was actually considering Edward Brooke as a VP candidate. I mean, aside from Brooke being possibly the most liberal Republican Senator (so the ticket will have a tough time being cohesive), Reagan will need the support of Strom and the Southern delegation to win the nomination. If they get wind of Edward Brooke as VP...it'd be like Schweiker but worse.
 
Why do people always assume that just because Reagan was a conservative, he was a racist? The same Reagan whose parents refused to let him see Birth of a Nation because they told him it of its bigoted message? The same Reagan who proudly played alongside black teammates at Eureka college, and invited them to stay with him when local hotels refused them? The same Reagan who defended black actors in Hollywood and as Governor of California appointed more African Americans to positions than all of his predecessors combined?

Say what you will about his policies or politics, but Ronald Reagan was no racist.


If it governs like a racist and it dogwhistles like a racist...
 
If it governs like a racist and it dogwhistles like a racist...

Google Wallace's reaction to the news of four little black girls being blown to bits in the basement of their church. Did Reagan ever react to such news in the same way?

I'm with thekingsguard on this one...
 
Why do people always assume that just because Reagan was a conservative, he was a racist? The same Reagan whose parents refused to let him see Birth of a Nation because they told him it of its bigoted message? The same Reagan who proudly played alongside black teammates at Eureka college, and invited them to stay with him when local hotels refused them? The same Reagan who defended black actors in Hollywood and as Governor of California appointed more African Americans to positions than all of his predecessors combined?
He also apologized for Japanese internment on behalf of the U.S. government.
Google Wallace's reaction to the news of four little black girls being blown to bits in the basement of their church. Did Reagan ever react to such news in the same way?
What was his reaction? :confused:
 
What was his reaction? :confused:

He put out a press release claiming it was blacks doing it to themselves as a deliberate attempt to discredit segregationists. AFAIK, he didn't claim the bombers knew there was anyone in the church when the bombs went off. And this isn't a conspiracy theory Ian, these are deliberate lies for purposes of political distraction for the Segregationist Supreme of Southern Governors in the Civil Rights Era. Wallace fooled no one. Not even KKK sympathizers:rolleyes:, to whom IMO he was directing this shit.
 
They could get worse if a GOP president is elected next year. The GOP Base, accustomed to getting stiffed on everything else they were promised when they worked doggedly to elect their man, DO manage to get their choice of supreme court appointments. So you could see not only the Gang of Five being made younger (Scalia, Thomas, and Kennedy retire), but if Ruth Bader-Ginsberg dies you could see a Gang of Six. Possibly strong enough to eliminate the entire Voting Rights Act at the same time that they reverse Roe v. Wade.

They could get better if a Democrat is elected next year. But IMO that would require said new Democratic POTUS to be re-elected in 2020, (1) an unlikely feat after 12 years of democratic rule, and the GOP's uncanny ability to pull off big wins in Census Years. The Dems haven't had a Census Year "wave election" since 1930! And at the time the USA was also dealing with a Gang of Five (The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse and Chief Justice Charles Evans Hughes).

1) IMVHO Scalia and Thomas (who is years younger than Scalia) are only going out the same way as their fellow reactionary Rehnquist did: Feet First.:mad: Kennedy MIGHT want to retire, but with the Gang of Five so radicalized I can't imagine him doing so under a Democratic POTUS. I believe all of the right wing members of the court can and will hold on until 2020. 2024 OTOH, no. Not even Scalia is stubborn enough to keep going that long. Or at least his body won't be. He'd be 88 by then.

EDIT: Remember that no reactionary Justice has surrender their seat to a liberal since 1937. And even that took the fear of Almighty God being put into the SCOTUS by FDR's court packing bill, a new pension system for retiring justices, and Chief Justice Hughes convincing the worst of the Four Horsemen to retire before his ill-health killed him.

Since when have conservatives expressed a desire to take down the Voting Rights Act?
 
Which ones exactly? I mean it was more or less implied in comics such as Simon du Fleuve, but it was less due to racial relations alone than social and cultural issues.
The story 'night of the birds of prey", the first album of the series 'Jeremiah' by Hermann starts with the first page giving a brief description of the world. In four wide panel shots we see: 1) tho sets of placards held up by invisible hands reading "Civilization in danger" and "United States, white states" versus "42% of population is black" and "black power now".
2) images of protesters clashing, bottles or Molotovs being thrown and one man falling down in a way suggesting he has been shot... Merging into another image of tanks riding through a sea of flames, bomber planes flying overhead and in the background a telltale mushroom cloud.
3) a desolated street with an overturned and burned-out car and skeletal remains of buildings in the background.
4) that same street now cracked open by tree roots, grass along the curbstones and the buildings now crumbled down to piles of concrete overgrown by vegetation. This is the only time the 'history' of Jeremiah's post-apocalyptic setting is explained and race relations are only used in one more adventure (no.7, Afromerica) but through just four panels, it's pretty certain that the great breakdown happened because of race tensions in 'our time' sparked a full blown nuclear civil war.
 
Since when have conservatives expressed a desire to take down the Voting Rights Act?

Have you been following the Supreme Court in the last few years? And yes, I count the Gang of Five as "conservatives". Split hairs all you like regarding how conservative each of them are on a man-for-man basis, but they are ALL conservative when you compare them to the nation as a whole. As opposed to just looking at how they stand compared to registered Republicans and republican leaning Independents.

EDIT: Voter ID is "dogwhistle" for taking down the VRA slice-by-slice.
 
Have you been following the Supreme Court in the last few years? And yes, I count the Gang of Five as "conservatives". Split hairs all you like regarding how conservative each of them are on a man-for-man basis, but they are ALL conservative when you compare them to the nation as a whole. As opposed to just looking at how they stand compared to registered Republicans and republican leaning Independents.

EDIT: Voter ID is "dogwhistle" for taking down the VRA slice-by-slice.

Why would conservatives want to undo the VRA? Only the most die-hard paleocons-the kind even Pat Buchanan looks down on-want to actually roll back civil rights.

I know saying conservatives are anything but pure evil is heresy in these parts, but saying that they want to undo the entire Civil Rights Movement is kind of beyond the pale.
 
I'll be convinced otherwise when Congress makes Election Day a national holiday, even if it means giving up either the holidays for Columbus, or Presidents, or MLK's. That would be ironic, as I don't think African-Americans would mind too much, and MLK himself would approve IMO.

Better yet, make Election Day a national holiday, AND call it Martin Luther King Jr's Day. The reverend would be far more honored by that than having his holiday as his birthday in the dead of winter, a time no one want. It'd be like getting your face on the penny. Lowly coin, but everyone sees your face!
 
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tenthring

Banned
POD is Roe v Wade doesn't happen and abortion is illegal. This results in about 20-30 million more black babies, primarily from the bottom of black society (poor single mothers).

This causes immense strain on the economies of governments with high black populations. It also either makes inner cities worse or governments try to disperse the extra blacks into the suburbs via section 8 infuriating those whites that left the city to get away from blacks. Nothing makes people infuriated about race relations more then section 8 slashing the value of their house in half. This is the untold story of places like Ferguson.

Although the extra black voters help the democratic party it moves whites further in the direction of becoming more of an ethnic voting block. Maybe you get a 70/30 white split instead of a 60/40. Politics becomes something dominated by partisan ethnic voting blocks as it is in a lot of multi-racial societies.
 

Puzzle

Donor
Have you been following the Supreme Court in the last few years? And yes, I count the Gang of Five as "conservatives". Split hairs all you like regarding how conservative each of them are on a man-for-man basis, but they are ALL conservative when you compare them to the nation as a whole. As opposed to just looking at how they stand compared to registered Republicans and republican leaning Independents.

EDIT: Voter ID is "dogwhistle" for taking down the VRA slice-by-slice.

Two things since this is getting far closer to Chat then a alternate history discussion. First, the conservative side of the Supreme Court is arguably more fractured then the liberal side, on all of the big recent cases no one expected any of the liberal four to break ranks, it was all Roberts or Kennedy. You can view that as them all being correct or ideologically blinkered. Second, there's plenty of room for rational well-meaning people to disagree without racism, striking down one section of the VRA because it relied on a forty year old formula that no longer was relevant in most cases doesn't strike me as the actions of neo-confederates.

For a more on-topic response I don't think adding a few more crazies to both sides could do anything but hurt. We've seen the impacts of deluded white supremacists recently and firearm technology hasn't increased too much since the sixties. Get a few more Dylann Roofs and radical blacks responding and the entire civil rights atmosphere would be poisoned.
 
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