AHC: Worst Possible Confederacy

samcster94

Banned
With a POD of 1861, what is the worst possible Confederacy that can be made??? It cannot follow ANY Lost Cause Tropes, meaning it will have slavery until some point in the 20th century at bare minimum(and from pressure). Bonus points if any theocratic elements are installed.
 
At this point, the "worst" really depends on the reader. If you are pro-Confederate, the worst possible scenario would likely be a CSA which collapses immediately and is annexed back into the Union. If you are an average person, then probably an Apartheid state is the worst possible ending.
 
At this point, the "worst" really depends on the reader. If you are pro-Confederate, the worst possible scenario would likely be a CSA which collapses immediately and is annexed back into the Union. If you are an average person, then probably an Apartheid state is the worst possible ending.

CSA collapse quickly and slavery continues, leading to an Apartheid state but also one where the non discredited "reformed" Southern system spreads to "ensure peaceful relations between the races". Church leaders see this as "progressive" and the program is applied to Indians and to a lesser extent hispanics. Latter forced sterilization and other eugenic techniques are used to breed a more "docile" population.

Since it's so successful, in continues to the present day.
 
CSA survives and holds slavery until 1910's. Before that the country has experienced Confederate Civil War on 1890's and lost few states. After slavery CSA adopts harsh segregation politics. Perhaps even so harsh as possible without genocidal politics. And segregation politics last to 2000's.

If CSA survives to this day, on 2017 the country is economically bankcrupted and still very racist country despite that segregation is not anymore exist. And country is too deeply religious and pretty hostile towards atheists, Jews and non-protestant Christians. The country is too very xenophobic and isolated.
 
The Confederate States continues with its OTL system of slavery until the 1930's. However, years of institutional slavery and abuse leads to the nation becoming an international pariah. Because of this, as well as many incompetent leaders and a few military governments (Think Pakistan), the CSA stays agrarian and underdeveloped well into the 1960's. However, while slavery is abolished, many African American's work as indentured servants and sharecroppers, a practice the government turns a blind eye to.

Finally tensions reach their boiling point in the 1970's, when African Americans begin to actively protest the government. This goes as well as expected, which results in militant Black revolutionary groups springing up in multiple states. Before long, the CSA is engaged in a grueling insurgency that almost tips on full genocide. It is at this point this TL's version of the UN, led by the CSA's neighbor to the north, finally intervenes. Modernizing the south and restoring some semblance of sanity to the society takes almost to present day to complete.
 
The Confederate forces not only win but conquer the northern states. They reform the union and force the northern states to legalize slavery.
You know, when I was about twelve and was first reading about the American Civil War, I used to think that this was actually the case - in the whole "Confederates wanted to unite the Union just like the Unionists" thing.

And I thought: "Wow, the CSA was dumb, how could they have thought that they could conquer all of the North?"
 

samcster94

Banned
These do look pretty horrible in these scenarios(the TL-191 direction is less realistic and is parallel to Nazism but still qualifies). Then again, a nation explicitly founded on slavery and with implicitly religious tenants is probably going to be ugly.
 
With a POD of 1861, what is the worst possible Confederacy that can be made??? It cannot follow ANY Lost Cause Tropes, meaning it will have slavery until some point in the 20th century at bare minimum(and from pressure). Bonus points if any theocratic elements are installed.
i'm curious as to how the Confederacy could actually be worse than it was IOTL
 
Since this is this is the WORST possible Confederacy here goes. A Confederate Civil War breaks out soon after the ACW but the Confederate Central Government wins. The inflation rate goes from runaway to hyper. The CSA defaults on its debts. By 1900 the CSA resembles Haiti. Eventually there is a slave revolt and the CSA goes full Nazi as a result. The slaves fight back and there is a full fledged slave war that lasts 5 years after which most Blacks are either dead or fled. The CSA continues as a mess until the present day , resembling Venezuela when it is having a good day. The US never bothers reconquering the Southern States because cleaning up the mess would cost far more than the states are worth. This is one hell of a longshot but the OP did state the worst possible CSA.
 
It is kind of hard to beat TL 191 for 'worst possible'

TL191 abused plausibility in both size/power and awfulness towards blacks, though.

1861 is sort of a boring POD for American secession, in my opinion. Something like a Deep South only secession or an earlier secession where slave states have a goal of controlling the plains are both much more interesting scenarios. The larger the black population of the Confederacy as a percentage, the more aggressively repressive the government has to be. And a Confederacy where black slaves are laboring on wheat plantations in Kansas is going to be awful in all sorts of new and different ways.
 

Greenville

Banned
I find the worst Confederacy is one that doesn't stay together fully intact. It's very likely it breaks away into three of more different nations. Texas becomes its own nation, the Gulf States remain together, and Virginia and the Carolinas split off independently. There may be separatist skirmishes, but like a defeated Union, nothing prevents a further splintering of the Confederacy. By 1890, three separate southern republics exist, each still dependent on slavery because they are individually too poor economically to modernize with industrial machinery. They may not adopt it or agree to emancipation until after the 20th century begins. Because of this splintering, a border dispute may even happen with Texas where its taken control over by Mexico again. Perhaps Louisiana is too without much of a unified military to defend it. Perhaps Texas seeks the aid of the United States to repel invasion. During World War I, some European power invades and makes one of the weaker republics part of its empire to have a foothold in North America.

Escaped slaves ally with the invading army or Mexican government which already banned slavery for decades and helped in the war effort for retribution and to liberate others. I also find it possible that slaves have enough strength to revolt in a guerilla movement and seek freedom on their own territory as a result.
 
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samcster94

Banned
TL191 abused plausibility in both size/power and awfulness towards blacks, though.

1861 is sort of a boring POD for American secession, in my opinion. Something like a Deep South only secession or an earlier secession where slave states have a goal of controlling the plains are both much more interesting scenarios. The larger the black population of the Confederacy as a percentage, the more aggressively repressive the government has to be. And a Confederacy where black slaves are laboring on wheat plantations in Kansas is going to be awful in all sorts of new and different ways.
Well, President Fremont 4 years earlier than Lincoln might get you that if that is what you want. A late secession would also be interesting.
 
Confederate states secede, economic failure leads to Upper South rejoining US by 1900, conditions deteriorate and nation attempts to develop biological weaponry over the next 10-15 years to offset inability to pay for an army. Then the weapons get loose.
 
The Confederacy purchases Cuba, and has access to a Pacific port through allied Mexico. Nationalists like Davis and Lee, vindicated by the victory, turn the Confederate Constitution into a formality, and pursue only the best interests of the nation, with fig-leaf legal justifications. Encouraged by Confederate victory, Brazil doesn't abolish slavery, and the Confederates, unable to expand territory to relieve slave pressure, begin selling slaves to Brazil, who burn through them as fast as they can get them. Both countries see persistent economic growth, and the Confederates continue to industrialize. All invasion avenues are heavily fortified, and the Confederacy adopts a conscript-reserve military system to make the most of its manpower. Brazil and the Confederacy establish and entrenched slave power bloc in the Caribbean. The great powers largely don't care as long as they're making money off of trade with them.
 

Greenville

Banned
I can see after the independence of the Confederacy by peace accord in 1864, economic stagflation engulfs the South because of the Union blockade and damage from the war. Many areas, especially along the Mississippi River are left heavily damaged from the war with the United States. Richmond is slow in providing the funds needed for reconstruction and resources run short. Rioting and armed insurgency begin across several states such as Tennessee, Arkansas, and Louisiana. Escaped slaves also take advantage of this time of weakness and form an insurgency along several parts of the nation. Richmond under a new more militant president than Jefferson Davis authorizes the Confederate army to violently suppress the rioters with force. Many civilians are killed under periods of martial law which prohibit further the economic growth. Rioting only increases under the military occupation with some accusing the new Confederate president of being too similar to Lincoln. The central army is also able to do little about the insurgency slaves across several parts.

Because of Richmond's recklessness in using indiscriminate force, several states secede seeing him as too similar to Lincoln for bringing the army down on their own people. Texas, Tennessee, Louisiana and Arkansas secede from the Confederacy jointly forming two separate constitutional republics. Indian Territory uses this chance to join the Texas Republic as well. The Confederate army is substantially weakened by this and cannot send a force to keep these territories in the nation. The slave insurgency is brutally suppressed, however. Some manage to escape to the North to be emancipated, however. This division of three separate Southern nations continues into the next century. Most abolish slavery by 1910. However political instability leads to civil war in Mexico. Forces under Pancho Villa raid Texan farms and ranches. The Texan military invades northern Mexico in the hopes of preventing this, but becomes bogged down in a guerrilla war lasting into World War I. In exchange for economic and military assistance in fighting Mexican guerillas, the Texan republic signs an accord with Germany to allow submarine and other types of bases within their territory to subdue the British and French navies. This accord aggravates the other Southern republics who generally side with the Allies. The openly begin a war with Texas to remove these bases becoming consumed in battle with Germany who attacks both on naval actions. They can't and don't send forces for ground war. However, the Southern republics do send forces to fight each other this way. A German naval blockade cripples the economies of both the Gulf Republic and Confederacy. Much infrastructure in all nations are destroyed in the fighting and agreement of an armistice in 1919.
 
The Confedracy in defense of its backward policies seals itself off from the rest of the world,think North Korea. A Strict Class based single party Dictatorship forms with the descendants of the planter class on top with a white middle class and a lower class of blacks, other minorities and poor whites on the bottom.
Through a steady diet of propiganda and approved/corrupted religion the general population belives the outside world is a wicked place.
Most Confederate citizens don't have indoor plumbing or electricity and the literacy rate among lower-class Confederate citizens is around 35%.The ruling classes purposely prevent the modernization of the Confedracy because they believe that it is a threat to their going to the Confedracy is like taking a trip back to the 1870s.
 
It is kind of hard to beat TL 191 for 'worst possible'

Thing is, up until about 1925 TL 191 is in the "not too bad" to "not as bad as it could be" category. I'm not saying "good" but there is hope for gradual emancipation and that WWI will be the last war in North America.

A lot of people have already blown TL 191 out of the water.
 
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