AHC/WI: White Peace WWI

With any PoD after the Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand, have WWI end in a status quo ante bellum peace in Europe. What would the aftermath of such a peace look like? What would be the cultural and economic effects in Europe? Could those borders last until the present day?

Note that only the European theater has to be a white peace. Non-European territories such as the colonies can still change hands.

Bonus points if this happens before the Russian Revolution and /or US entry into the war.
 
This has been approached from various angles. I'll provide a few of my stock observations.

The US lacking any Great War experience has a Army even less well developed thru the early & middle 20th Century. No large National Guard development in the 1920s

Naval development will be somewhat different, with some weird appearing things emerging.

We have to assume this White Peace comes with something that makes Europe more politically stable. Otherwise a nether Great War its liable to end it in a decade to two at the most. Given stability the next big war might be of Japan making a play similar to its 1904 war with Russia.
 
With any PoD after the Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand, have WWI end in a status quo ante bellum peace in Europe. What would the aftermath of such a peace look like? What would be the cultural and economic effects in Europe? Could those borders last until the present day?

Note that only the European theater has to be a white peace. Non-European territories such as the colonies can still change hands.

Bonus points if this happens before the Russian Revolution and /or US entry into the war.
No a chance, france was all hellbend to get E-L back.
 
OTL britain was in till the bitter end the true pod would be why they throw out the towel or all decided to give up for nothing
With France out and Russia out, there would be no reason for the UK to keep fighting - so long as they could count on getting something out of the peace deal. Restoration and neutrality of Belgium, no German occupation of the Channel Ports (goodbye, Septemberprogramm... or at least that portion of it)...
 
With France out and Russia out, there would be no reason for the UK to keep fighting - so long as they could count on getting something out of the peace deal. Restoration and neutrality of Belgium, no German occupation of the Channel Ports (goodbye, Septemberprogramm... or at least that portion of it)...
My god there's some real circular reasoning here on this thread. Let me summarise.

How do we get a white peace.
We won't get a white peace France wanted their territory back. You would have to beat them to get them to quit.
What if Britain and Russia abandoned France?
Britain was all in they won't abandon France.
What if France wasn't in the war.

Not really anything to the op.

As to the op's question I find a white peace very difficult to imagine. Perhaps in a no USA entry we could have sheer exhaustion on both sides as Britain and France can't buy from USA has effects around the same time the blockade is finally biting the Germans hard.
 
My god there's some real circular reasoning here on this thread. Let me summarise.

How do we get a white peace.
We won't get a white peace France wanted their territory back. You would have to beat them to get them to quit.
What if Britain and Russia abandoned France?
Britain was all in they won't abandon France.
What if France wasn't in the war.

Not really anything to the op.

As to the op's question I find a white peace very difficult to imagine. Perhaps in a no USA entry we could have sheer exhaustion on both sides as Britain and France can't buy from USA has effects around the same time the blockade is finally biting the Germans hard.
Circular reasoning explains a lot of the circumstances that led to the 1st WW to begin with...
"I thought he was going to hit me, so I hit him back first..." :p
 
The difficulty in having a white peace is that you need to keep one side from decisively winning, but since this was a total war, the sides were committed to throwing more and more of their population and resources at the problem until they either won or their society collapsed, which would ultimately result in someone winning and someone collapsing one way or another. So really, a white peace is something that happens when two sides would rather abandon the prospect of gains than to commit more of themselves to the war. To make that happen in World War One, the commitment on both sides needs to be less extreme somehow.

How to get there is still a mystery to me, though.
 
Circular reasoning explains a lot of the circumstances that led to the 1st WW to begin with...
"I thought he was going to hit me, so I hit him back first..." :p
Nope all wanted a war to be the top dog...is just that would not be an easier franco prussian war anymore.

WE NEED A REAL POD, if not any conversation is null and nil

So really, a white peace is something that happens when two sides would rather abandon the prospect of gains than to commit more of themselves to the war. To make that happen in World War One, the commitment on both sides needs to be less extreme somehow.

How to get there is still a mystery to me, though.
I got an idea...all europe goes commie
 
Nope all wanted a war to be the top dog...is just that would not be an easier franco prussian war anymore.

WE NEED A REAL POD, if not any conversation is null and nil


I got an idea...all europe goes commie
Hmmm.... how do you accomplish that? Just on the face of it, seems a bit more difficult than a "white peace" between powers which knew each other, very well.... OP specifies after FF is assassinated... short of simultaneous, successful Bolshevist risings everywhere in Europe sometime in 1915, how would a "Commie Europe" come to pass? 🤔
 
Hmmm.... how do you accomplish that? Just on the face of it, seems a bit more difficult than a "white peace" between powers which knew each other, very well.... OP specifies after FF is assassinated... short of simultaneous, successful Bolshevist risings everywhere in Europe sometime in 1915, how would a "Commie Europe" come to pass? 🤔
No clue, maybe the international keeps to its pledge and every union on the continent gos into strike?
 
The difficulty in having a white peace is that you need to keep one side from decisively winning, but since this was a total war, the sides were committed to throwing more and more of their population and resources at the problem until they either won or their society collapsed, which would ultimately result in someone winning and someone collapsing one way or another. So really, a white peace is something that happens when two sides would rather abandon the prospect of gains than to commit more of themselves to the war. To make that happen in World War One, the commitment on both sides needs to be less extreme somehow.

How to get there is still a mystery to me, though.
How about the Austro Hungarian Empire starting to unravel at the same time as the Russians. Add more mutinies in the French and Italian armies and it starts coming down to just the British and the Germans. The former could then start to ask why they are bothering to continue to fight when their allies aren't.
 
We have to assume this White Peace comes with something that makes Europe more politically stable. Otherwise a nether Great War its liable to end it in a decade to two at the most. Given stability the next big war might be of Japan making a play similar to its 1904 war with Russia.
I can't see Europe being more politically stable. The white peace means that there'll be some people willing to go back for round 2. Not to mention the failure of countries like France and Italy to achieve anything in Europe will set the stage for worse political instability.
 
With any PoD after the Assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand, have WWI end in a status quo ante bellum peace in Europe. What would the aftermath of such a peace look like? What would be the cultural and economic effects in Europe? Could those borders last until the present day?

Note that only the European theater has to be a white peace. Non-European territories such as the colonies can still change hands.

Bonus points if this happens before the Russian Revolution and /or US entry into the war.
You have to first start with the Germans NOT going through Belgium and focusing east which has been discussed ad nauseam on the impact. You might not get a quick knock out of Russia but you very well could win by end of 1915, early '16. By not going through Belgium the UK needs to find a way to get into the war that the public would support. Therefore, no UK in, no Italy coming in, at least not on Entente side. Meanwhile Germany could sit just a few hundred thousand troops with plenty of artillery and machine guns in very defensible terrain in parts of Alsace-Lorraine and bleed the French or make them violate Belgium and you find out if the UK will truly support Belgium neutrality or not.

No UK, means no Japan as well, so the pacific colonies are untouched. It also means, the French and Russians have to face down the superior HSF, which frankly has a good chance of demolishing the French at sea and instituting their own blockade of Atlantic ports, not sure if they would risk doing that in the Channel and pissing off the English. So Germany and the other CPs that have bloodied up the Entente side and someone finally realizes this is turning into a blood bath and offers white peace but only for the major powers, as Serbia has to be dealt with so they definitely get punished, if not outright split between A-H and Ottomans.

In this way, you have not had a long enough war to completely destabilize the A-H or Ottoman empires and with oil having been found in greater numbers throughout the mid-east, it is only a matter of time before oil money helps get the Ottomans out of debt, they may in fact outlast the A-H empire. This also means the wealth transfer to the US never happens, London stays the financial capital for at least a couple of more decades, and the US stays happy in neutrality and we all avoid the Great Depression because that was largely triggered by a series of events heavily tied to WW1 debt among all the warring nations. The US might still have a major recession kicked off by the same problems as OTL but the excess of the '20s doesn't happened because they didn't get a boom from war loans and arms sales.

The Tsar probably survives but not as absolute monarch, I would still say the war even a short one, is bad enough with recent revloutions already happened that he either agrees to a new constitution and limit on power or he abdicates and his brother agrees to it. While there are lost lives in large numbers, it's not nearly the same as OTL, thus you have the UK, France, and Germany still able to maintain their colonies for even longer periods, possible even up to the 90s, or in Britains case they might have all turned into Dominions that maintained close ties, especially without the Gallipoli campaign. Honestly, if they can avoid a 2nd and even worse war, the world is much better off. Even if there is a second war, they likelihood of the same evil men coming to power and butchering 10s of millions is unlikely. No Stalin, so no 30 million plus dead Soviets and thus no Mao, do no 60 million plus dead Chinese under his rule.

EDIT: Forgot to specify but no, borders don't last, at some point I think you get a rebirth of Poland and the A-H breaks up. But still more stable overall.
 

cardcarrier

Banned
some kind of much earlier Russian collapse makes this creates the backdrop where this could at least be discussed

the problem this would always run into is the intractable ambitions of Italy France and Germany;

peace without annexations would be very hard to see coming out of any of those 3 governments as they existed in the original timeline
 
some kind of much earlier Russian collapse makes this creates the backdrop where this could at least be discussed

the problem this would always run into is the intractable ambitions of Italy France and Germany;

peace without annexations would be very hard to see coming out of any of those 3 governments as they existed in the original timeline
The peace would not come for the top.
It could be ordinary people decide that the war is of no benefit to them and will only make the makers of weapons wealthy while they are cannon fodder.
So war leading to social interest and a much bigger peace movement.
 
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