AHC & WI: Western Imperial Exams

Something I thought of while reading about an 11th century Chinese Chancellor and figured would be interesting to see what others thoughts would be.

How could we get a system similar to the Imperial Exams of China in the West and, assuming it does'nt completely change history to the point as to
be completely different, how would such a system effect the development of the Western world?
 
The only state I can imagine that would even try - as its the only Western state that has an established bureaucracy - is the Eastern Roman Empire.

It would probably mean that the Empire is able to survive the fact it can't rely on brilliant emperors forever, if things otherwise go reasonably well - depends on how things go after they run out.

If that's not western enough, well, you can't produce anything like this with a feudal society. You'll need some state to crawl out of that muck first. The educational/governmental infrastructure to establish something where this could exist being developed in say, the Holy Roman Empire is a long way off.

Would be fascinating to see how that would play out though, if some emperor is somehow able to move things in that direction. China wasn't born with bureaucracy either.
 
The only state I can imagine that would even try - as its the only Western state that has an established bureaucracy - is the Eastern Roman Empire.

It would probably mean that the Empire is able to survive the fact it can't rely on brilliant emperors forever, if things otherwise go reasonably well - depends on how things go after they run out.

If that's not western enough, well, you can't produce anything like this with a feudal society. You'll need some state to crawl out of that muck first. The educational/governmental infrastructure to establish something where this could exist being developed in say, the Holy Roman Empire is a long way off.

Would be fascinating to see how that would play out though, if some emperor is somehow able to move things in that direction. China wasn't born with bureaucracy either.

Well, the HRE did have a small bureacratic class, the ministeriales, but they also doubled as knights, so they were nowhere as professional at the ERE's administration. However, if given time and a centralized government, then something like this might emerge.
 
Well, the HRE did have a small bureacratic class, the ministeriales, but they also doubled as knights, so they were nowhere as professional at the ERE's administration. However, if given time and a centralized government, then something like this might emerge.

Yeah, but you'd need to establish something where the idea of a professional bureaucracy running things is the norm, instead of one of those funny Greek ideas like a nonfeudal army.

That's the problem. Having a handful of ministeriales is one thing, the empire being administered by an organized bureaucracy, is another.

Its not impossible, just that it be a long term process to get things to the point Imperial exams are relevant.
 
If that's not western enough, well, you can't produce anything like this with a feudal society. You'll need some state to crawl out of that muck first. The educational/governmental infrastructure to establish something where this could exist being developed in say, the Holy Roman Empire is a long way off.

[SNIP]

Yeah, but you'd need to establish something where the idea of a professional bureaucracy running things is the norm, instead of one of those funny Greek ideas like a nonfeudal army.
^You called. ;)

It's called an exam but it started as a de facto interest sharing+loyalty oath+patronage system with some oversight. But since education became more important, literacy became more widespread and a bureaucratic class developed it's become a real exam. It took almost two centuries to really become entrenched. The first requirement that was really a hard and fast rule was simply literacy in Arabic or Latin. The spread of paper by the mid-800s really helped too.
 
You might be able to get it started in Muslim Spain, this would be a way to bring the other peoples of the book into the government in other roles than they had. They had some of the educational institutions set up at this time.
There would have to be a POD further back than this to make it happen.
 
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