AHC/WI: Viking-Breton William the Conqueror

With a 900 POD, how do you get a Viking-Breton(or just Breton if you want that) version of the IOTL Norman William the Conqueror taking over England, what would the linguistic and social effect be if Britanny is not part of the kingdom of France(I imagine that would be need for a lasting Viking Britanny, or vice versa as well), would there be some disenfranchisment of the remaining Britons and what would be the relationship with the Welsh?

On top of that, can the name Britain replace England considering the Breton origins?
 

raharris1973

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I wonder if it's possible. I won't say yet it's impossible.

One thing to remember about William the Conqueror is that he had a distant claim to the throne through English-Norman intermarriages. Would Bretons, or Breton Normans, have a similar "in"?

When was the first intermarriage between English and any of Welsh, Cornish or Breton nobility or royalty? If it was already a common thing by the 1000s, then I think the only limiting factors would be logistics, military power and ambition.
 
I wonder if it's possible. I won't say yet it's impossible.

One thing to remember about William the Conqueror is that he had a distant claim to the throne through English-Norman intermarriages. Would Bretons, or Breton Normans, have a similar "in"?

When was the first intermarriage between English and any of Welsh, Cornish or Breton nobility or royalty? If it was already a common thing by the 1000s, then I think the only limiting factors would be logistics, military power and ambition.
Well with a 900 POD and Viking connections, it should be possible. Why did the Norman and English built those connection to begin with?

Did people have such ethnic concerns? I get the problem with Welsh and local Britons, but was Britanny off-limits compared to Normandy?
 
William the Conqueror had a lot of Breton allies, and many of the Norman lords were recruited across France, not just Normandy proper.

If Normandy had been founded in Brittany, and England was still conquered by this Breton Normandy, the resulting dynasty and elites may still have been French in character. A resurgence of the Breton language, although a cool idea, would be unlikely in this scenario.
 
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William the Conqueror had a lot of Breton allies, and many of the Norman lords were recruited across France, not just Normandy proper.

If Normandy had been founded in Brittany, and England was still conquered by this Breton Normandy, the resulting dynasty and elites may still have been French in character. A resurgence of the Breton language, although a cool idea, would be unlikely in this scenario.
What about a independent Britanny that is not part of the French kingdom? If Britanny wasn't destabilized in the 10th century and the Normandy agreement didn't happen, you'd have a Britanny with the Channel Isles and a third of Normandy.

I wasn't thinking of resurgence of Brythonic, just what would happen if this weird re-conquest like scenario happened.
 
  1. You would need the Britons to retain the Cotentin Peninsula against the Vikings and be much more united. Brittany was quite fractured between competing counts and Dukes for a very long time, with western Bretons able to hold off against unification or even fealty for quite a while.
  2. You'd then need the Bretons to more deeply engaged in English affairs, including the Danelaw and Cnut conflicts, with a reworking of the various marriages that took place between the Bretons, English, Flemish and Normans to fend off Cnut's North Sea Empire.
  3. After that, you'd need the Bretons to be in the ascendancy among the Flemish and Normans to launch the invasion.

On the face of it, it could be doable but accounting for butterflies would be very difficult. Brittany wasn't as wealthy or as organized as Normandy was under William and his predecessors, which contributed greatly to William's success.
 
  1. You would need the Britons to retain the Cotentin Peninsula against the Vikings and be much more united. Brittany was quite fractured between competing counts and Dukes for a very long time, with western Bretons able to hold off against unification or even fealty for quite a while.
  2. You'd then need the Bretons to more deeply engaged in English affairs, including the Danelaw and Cnut conflicts, with a reworking of the various marriages that took place between the Bretons, English, Flemish and Normans to fend off Cnut's North Sea Empire.
  3. After that, you'd need the Bretons to be in the ascendancy among the Flemish and Normans to launch the invasion.
On the face of it, it could be doable but accounting for butterflies would be very difficult. Brittany wasn't as wealthy or as organized as Normandy was under William and his predecessors, which contributed greatly to William's success.
I just want to remind the POD is 900 AD, that's even before the viking settlement in Normandy and prior the demise of the Breton kingdom. It's not like I'm saying that in 1066 you just need to replace Normandy with Britanny, you could have the invasion happen later if needed.

What's the problem with butterflies?
 
Essentially you need to nerf the Norman Counts of Rouen and strengthen the Kings of Brittany. Otherwise the Normans can control most of the access to the southern English ports as they expand westward.
A strong Brittany holding the coast west of Caen can then effectively replace Normandy in this position. Then you just need to manufacture an equivalent invasion that's also successful.
 
Essentially you need to nerf the Norman Counts of Rouen and strengthen the Kings of Brittany. Otherwise the Normans can control most of the access to the southern English ports as they expand westward.
A strong Brittany holding the coast west of Caen can then effectively replace Normandy in this position. Then you just need to manufacture an equivalent invasion that's also successful.
The border was just about there in the late 9th and early 10th century.

Can the Bretons settle the Normans in their borderlands region to create a march against the French kingdom? This would shift their settlement westwards compared to IOTL, maybe even in the Loire area, although I'm not sure about that.
Maybe 900 is a bit late for that, although I'd argue the death of Alan, if postponed, could allow such a thing to happen. Maybe a 870 POD for better relation between the 2 is needed.
 
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