AHC/WI: The Hundred years' War ends in a divided France?

So I, like the rest of us, have seen many threads about England winning the Hundred years war, mainly via Henry V living. However I've never seen this suggested before: could we see a Hundred years war in which both sides "lose", like the Korean war? By that I mean England controls Northern France (lets say roughly the lands controlled by Henry V at his death) while the Valois maintain control over the rest of the country. Could this be realistic or would both sides continue towards a "winner take all" scenario? What potential long-term repercussions could develop from such a division? Earlier Valois interest in Italy? A potential English invasion of Burgundy? Perhaps even an attempt by an Emperor to truly recreate Charlemagne's empire? Or would this type of division only last until one side or the other gets a strong enough ruler to change the balance?
 
The Valois would rather lose all their land and hold their honour then have half their land under the rule by the English.
Modern stalemates are due to two great powers not wanting to start a nuclear war. Medieval wars were ever win or lose.
france_henryv.jpg

A stalemate like this, would need England, Burgundy and the Holy Roman Empire against Spain and France, with Scotland only financially supporting France.
 
Henry V lives until the 1450's giving his son time to grow into a mentally stable man before becoming king (thus also avoiding the Wars of Roses). Orléans is taken by the English and the dauphin is forced to relinquish his claims in northern France, but Henry realises that he's in no position to control southern France directly and thus, after a phase of several years of small scale fighting and ongoing negotiations, an agreement is reached in which France is split. The Valois dynasty moves the court first to Bourges and later, after the county of Berry amongst others is exchanged for Aquitaine in a treaty between Henry II / VI and Lois IX to Lyon. In the 16th century the border stabilises along the oil / oc linguistic divide.
 
I think the bigger issue for the Plantagenets is not so much Henry V living longer as it is trying to come up with the resources to hold onto all that French territory. It was one thing for the English to win the occasional battle, but to control vast lands with their army (at one point their French territory was larger than England itself) was always going to make them vulnerable to a counter-offensive, once the Valois forces regrouped under competent leadership. England at this time had about four million subjects while France had 15-16 million.
 
Divided France

Henry V lives until the 1450's giving his son time to grow into a mentally stable man before becoming king (thus also avoiding the Wars of Roses). Orléans is taken by the English and the dauphin is forced to relinquish his claims in northern France, but Henry realises that he's in no position to control southern France directly and thus, after a phase of several years of small scale fighting and ongoing negotiations, an agreement is reached in which France is split. The Valois dynasty moves the court first to Bourges and later, after the county of Berry amongst others is exchanged for Aquitaine in a treaty between Henry II / VI and Lois IX to Lyon. In the 16th century the border stabilises along the oil / oc linguistic divide.
Even if Henry V had lived longer, there is no guarantee that his son would have been more stable or capable.
 
Divided France

I think the bigger issue for the Plantagenets is not so much Henry V living longer as it is trying to come up with the resources to hold onto all that French territory. It was one thing for the English to win the occasional battle, but to control vast lands with their army (at one point their French territory was larger than England itself) was always going to make them vulnerable to a counter-offensive, once the Valois forces regrouped under competent leadership. England at this time had about four million subjects while France had 15-16 million.
I agree. There is also the problem of Scotland.
 
Perhaps the house of Valois-Burgundy is able to turn the duchy of Burgundy in a sovereign duchy (probably attach some more former French fiefs to it).

It would make negotiating for a royal crown with the Pope and/or Holy Roman Emperor a whole lot easier.
 
I agree. There is also the problem of Scotland.

How is Scotland a problem? Every time the Scots went to war with England on behalf of France it ended with a defeated Scottish army, many nobles dead and the Scottish King captured/humiliated/dead. Scotland would be a temporary distraction at best.

But the earlier comment about the French population is no doubt correct. It would be a real problem maintaining control over such a large swath of territory without collaboration among the French nobility. Sure some would support the new regime, if only out of self interest, but many would no doubt side with the Valois. Maybe some of the English nobility could be transplanted to Northern France to take the French nobles places? IDK what affect that would have on the cities and peasantry.

Perhaps the Valois could take Guyenne but fail in the North, creating a real North/South divide. If the English King, in his position as ruler of Northern France, released Burgundy from being a vassal of France and recognized it as its own country, I think that would no doubt guarantee a continued
Anglo-Burgundian alliance.
 
My suggestion would be to give up their claims to the French throne. It was just too much to reach for whilst also potentially scaring the other French dukes and counts or the Burgundians with the thought of a centralised state under the English. Better to keep hold of Aquitaine and trade their other claims away for an agreement that sees it either declared independent of France or at least allodial land so that whilst technically still a part of France the English kings are not require to give homage, or be called to attend - or if so then allowed to send their governor/representative in their place. They can then concentrate on working with the other powerful French lords to help keep France from becoming too centralised or the Crown too powerful over the coming years.
 
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