AHC/WI: The Angevin Empire survives longer

To add to what Yorel said, had things gone as it seems Richard and Eleanor intended (after Henry II's death) - Arthur would inherit the northern part (Brittany, Anjou, Normandy, England), and Eleanor's grandson Otto (who OTL is Otto IV of the HRE) would have inherited Aquitaine and Poitiers.
 
this was done as a background for one of the GURPS infinte worlds powers, the Centrum

according to that game, William of the white ship doesnt drown and comes to the throne, and eventually uniting england and france into union...this eventually becomes a world spanning power, hundreds of years ahead in tech and such due to not having the medieval age last long (its never explained)
then in 1906 i think, a groupd of dissidents detonate a nuke in london, decapitating the ruling house and causing a massive global succession war which leads to both nuclear and biological attacks all over, killing off billions and leaving the rest to become nutated cannibals..

except for Terra Australis (otl australia) where a military/corporate cabal known as the Centrum take over the world (usually by wiping most of it out) turn it into a tecnocratic socialist meritocracy and then beging invading other alternate earths for their resources, and by enforcing their own principles, such as meritocracy, elimaintion of capitaslism and the universal launguage of english...

so thats one way the world could go....

A nice story, but that's a massive conclusion to jump to, and just a little ASB.
 
A nice story, but that's a massive conclusion to jump to, and just a little ASB.

thats was kinda my point

theres no way of telling the realistic ramifications of a surviving angevian empire as the whole situation was so complex to begin with in otl
 
thats was kinda my point

theres no way of telling the realistic ramifications of a surviving angevian empire as the whole situation was so complex to begin with in otl

I think its possible if one can make it (a surviving Angevin empire in the first place), but a surviving Angevin empire would take quite a lot of effort just have it make it to the 14th century, let alone later.
 
Wasn't he trying to do exactly that before being killed by a crossbow bolt ?

Eh, not exactly "expanding his empire", unless you count "reconquering land taken from him by Philip II Augustus" to be "expanding". Usually, expansion suggests capturing land that wasn't held before, though...
 
Eh, not exactly "expanding his empire", unless you count "reconquering land taken from him by Philip II Augustus" to be "expanding". Usually, expansion suggests capturing land that wasn't held before, though...

And the first Plantagenets were a pretty feudal lot.
 
What?

How does this involve magic? You may argue that it's implausible but i don't see any magic.

I believe he meant the Lord Darcy books - which specifically involve magic as a setting element as well as the Angevin Empire never falling (POD involving Arthur of Brittany I believe, but I only know of them, never read 'em) - are ASB.
 
I believe he meant the Lord Darcy books - which specifically involve magic as a setting element as well as the Angevin Empire never falling (POD involving Arthur of Brittany I believe, but I only know of them, never read 'em) - are ASB.

Sorry. Yes. When posting from my nook, with its screen keyboard, i am often too terse. Btw, anyone who hasnt read those books, should.
 
Sorry. Yes. When posting from my nook, with its screen keyboard, i am often too terse. Btw, anyone who hasnt read those books, should.

Oh i see.

I've never read those books... or even heard of them for that matter. I was just doing some online reading about the Angevin empire and thought that their survival was an interesting idea.
 
I believe he meant the Lord Darcy books - which specifically involve magic as a setting element as well as the Angevin Empire never falling (POD involving Arthur of Brittany I believe, but I only know of them, never read 'em) - are ASB.

I have read them, although it's been a while. Pulling my copy of the first book from my shelf shows that the POD was Richard the Lion-Hearted surviving being struck by a crossbow bolt at the Siege of Chaluz and settling down to "controlling the Empire witha firm hand and a wise brain". His nephew Arthur fought with Richard against the treacheries of Prince John, who died in 1216. When Richard died in 1219 Arthur succeeded to the throneand "had resolved to rule his realm in the same chivalric manner [as Arthur of Camelot]". This led to the Plantagenet line continuing to rule the Angevin Empire to the present day.

The later development of "rules of magic" came after the POD, and resulted in a world where magic largely replaced technology. However, magic was not directly instrumental in preserving the Empire.
 
I have read them, although it's been a while. Pulling my copy of the first book from my shelf shows that the POD was Richard the Lion-Hearted surviving being struck by a crossbow bolt at the Siege of Chaluz and settling down to "controlling the Empire witha firm hand and a wise brain". His nephew Arthur fought with Richard against the treacheries of Prince John, who died in 1216. When Richard died in 1219 Arthur succeeded to the throneand "had resolved to rule his realm in the same chivalric manner [as Arthur of Camelot]". This led to the Plantagenet line continuing to rule the Angevin Empire to the present day.

The later development of "rules of magic" came after the POD, and resulted in a world where magic largely replaced technology. However, magic was not directly instrumental in preserving the Empire.

So maybe we follow this book up until the "rules of magic"?

I don't know, i haven't read it, but it seems to be what i'm talking about. Richard lives longer, John is contained, the empire lives on.
 
Here is a description of the history and politics taken from the novel and short stories; they were written as mysteries but the background seems to have been carefully thought out. I'm not enough of a student of European history to know how well that history would have actually followed from the POD. And of course there's no reason that it should, but it does seem like a good jumping-off point.
 
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