AHC / WI: Soviets take Southern Germany

With a PoD in 1945 or late 1944, how might the Soviets advance quickly enough to take Bavaria and Franconia, and maybe some more western territory like the southeastern half of Lower Saxony? What could be the effects of such a substantially larger Soviet occupation zone / future DDR?
 
Even more of Germany is expensive to rebuild later and the Soviets destroy BMW. Also it's possible red bull doesn't exist here.
 
Germany as it is now would be very less powerful, as many of the areas today that were in the DDR are a lot poorer and less developed than the west. It would take a lot longer for Germany to become the large superpower it is now, as more of its area is underdeveloped than the other areas of Europe. This is an interesting scenario that leads to a very different modern day Europe. Also, there would be a lot more military buildup in the area, as NATO would have less natural barriers, like the hills in Thuringia, and more DDR controlled North German Plain.
 
With a PoD in 1945 or late 1944, how might the Soviets advance quickly enough to take Bavaria and Franconia, and maybe some more western territory like the southeastern half of Lower Saxony? What could be the effects of such a substantially larger Soviet occupation zone / future DDR?
Weren't the occupation zones of Germany already decided? I think that just like the Western allies the Soviets would not focus on areas that would fall into American/British hands and shift focus towards parts of Europe that were not already decided. Like Greece or Yugoslavia, or something like that.
 
I'm pretty sure the occupation zones were already decided as evident when US, UK and other Allies withdrew from territory in the Soviet Zone in 1945.
 
Weren't the occupation zones of Germany already decided? I think that just like the Western allies the Soviets would not focus on areas that would fall into American/British hands and shift focus towards parts of Europe that were not already decided. Like Greece or Yugoslavia, or something like that.

And if Stalin DOES pull off something like that, well you can have the cold war starting then and there.
 
I don’t think USSR would be able to do it, the Soviets was running on steams, and South Germany would demand fighting through Austria which is honestly a bad front to fight on, north Germany after East Prussia on the other hand was flat farmland with mostly a few rivers slowing the Soviet down.

The better question could we see alternate occupation zones, where Bavaria and all of Austria ended up as Soviet zones, while the allies got a better border in north Germany?
 
Weren't the occupation zones of Germany already decided? I think that just like the Western allies the Soviets would not focus on areas that would fall into American/British hands and shift focus towards parts of Europe that were not already decided. Like Greece or Yugoslavia, or something like that.

I'm pretty sure the occupation zones were already decided as evident when US, UK and other Allies withdrew from territory in the Soviet Zone in 1945.


This. It's also the reason Eisenhower didn't move to take Berlin when they could have.

Yes. All of this. The occupation zones were pretty much decided from 1943 (at least their relative positions and the outline of the future Soviet zone in relation to the two other zones (which was the focus of a dispute between Roosevelt and the British as Roosevelt wanted the northwestern zone for the Americans and the southern zones for the British, while the British wanted the reverse since it made more sense anyway due to the expected positions of the armies stemming from the organization of the planned Normandy landings).

All that would likely happen if the Soviets could reach southern Germany (likely through Czechoslovakia) would be that they would seize more material and equipment as reparations for the German invasion before handing the area over to the Americans (possibly in a phased withdrawal that was coordinated with an American and British withdrawal from any areas in the north which were supposed to be in the Soviet zone).
 
Perhaps a more interesting question is what if the Soviet Union decided to drive into Southern Germany and other territories and not withdraw when their turn came?
 
The only PoD within the specified timeframe that I can think of is that the Slovakian uprising in ‘44 is handled better by everyone involved and succeeds in allowing the Red Army rapid passage into and through the country. A subsequent southward thrust into western Hungary during the fall gets into the rear of the German defenses against the Soviet forces coming in from Romania and clears a way to advance into Czechoslovakia and Austria during the winter then Southern Germany in the Spring.

Then again, it might not be that simple. The Germans would undoubtedly respond to such losses in Hungary by shifting in forces from other fronts and that could accelerate the advance of the Soviet forces on the main axis in Poland and the WAllies through the Low Countries and Italy while slowing the Soviets in Hungary back down. In that case, it’d shorten the war overall, but doesn’t change the final lines of demarcation.

I don’t think USSR would be able to do it, the Soviets was running on steams,

Again and again I see this claim made and again and again I can’t find anything up. Soviet production and supply throughput figures for the first part of 1945 are all in excess of the prior periods of war, with munitions supply in particular having grown so large that Soviet artillery was firing off a 1,000 tons of rounds more then their WAllied counterparts were, and manpowerwise the declines in strength among rifle formations were matched by increases in mechanized, artillery, and other support services, with the Soviets still having 1.3 million replacements in reserve when the war ended.

All that would likely happen if the Soviets could reach southern Germany (likely through Czechoslovakia) would be that they would seize more material and equipment as reparations for the German invasion before handing the area over to the Americans (possibly in a phased withdrawal that was coordinated with an American and British withdrawal from any areas in the north which were supposed to be in the Soviet zone).

Pretty much what I figure would happen, yeah. Snag anything that isn’t nailed down and on fire then sow the region with communist stay behinds before handing it back over.
 
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Perhaps a more interesting question is what if the Soviet Union decided to drive into Southern Germany and other territories and not withdraw when their turn came?

Like I said, the Cold War starts then and there if they're acting that blatant.
 
The better question could we see alternate occupation zones, where Bavaria and all of Austria ended up as Soviet zones, while the allies got a better border in north Germany?
I don't think that the Soviets would allow this, as they wouldn't want to give up more of the North German Plain, on of the key routes to invade the east. I think the soviets would put a priority on getting more Northern Territory than southern.
 
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