AHC/WI: Russia remains divided. Effects?

What if Muscovy, Novgorod, etc failed to unite the Russian lands? What are its effects in Eastern Europe and Eurasia? Poland-Lithuania might survive a bit longer ITTL, but how about for Sweden and the Ottomans? How much powerful can they get without a very big neighbor to deal with?
 
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You could do it easy with a surviving Kievan Rus, as decentralized as it was, you could still have a series of feuding principalities. You would have to not have the Mongol Invasion happen.

Otherwise in the Tatar yoke you had a system set up where the principality of Vladimir was the main enforcer of taxation and had power over the Russian states. From that position a state could take advantage and slowly consolidate power.

Effects you could see a strong Lithuania if it still rises, depending on the POD a more diverse Eurasia.
 
Siberia stays independent for one thing. Well, at least until one of the European colonial powers tries to colonize it. The Baltic States get stronger as well.
 
Siberia stays independent for one thing. Well, at least until one of the European colonial powers tries to colonize it. The Baltic States get stronger as well.

The Western European colonial powers would have absolutely no interest in Siberia.

I also don't buy that it stays independent. The Eastern Principalities would just settle it (Vladimir and Ryazan I guess).
 
The Western European colonial powers would have absolutely no interest in Siberia.

I also don't buy that it stays independent. The Eastern Principalities would just settle it (Vladimir and Ryazan I guess).

Or more likely China or Mongolia would keep Siberia.
 
Siberia stays independent for one thing. Well, at least until one of the European colonial powers tries to colonize it. The Baltic States get stronger as well.

I assume you're talking about the Sibir Khanate, right?
Either way, none of the great European colonizers would bother conquering/settling those areas. Japan probably gets the OTL Russian Far East in the late 1800s, and Canada likely gets Alaska.
 
Assuming the Swedish Empire is still formed in this scenario, I think it would last longer. I'm also inclined to think the Ottomans would be able to go farther into Europe.
 
Assuming the Swedish Empire is still formed in this scenario, I think it would last longer. I'm also inclined to think the Ottomans would be able to go farther into Europe.

I imagine (why do I keep using 'I imagine'?) that the Crimea would remain Muslim, but if the Ottomans expand as OTL into Europe, Austria is going to block them. If that is true, I agree they might expand into Ukraine, and I remember reading somewhere that they had plans to build a Volga-Don canal to expand around the Caspian and potentially Central Asia.
 

Kingpoleon

Banned
Ivan III "The Great" died from the plague on his sixth birthday. After the various Russian principalities defeated the Golden Horde, relations began to fall apart. Novgorod allied Crimea and managed to fend off Muscovy. In the Battle of St. Petersburg, Novgorodan forces numbering 18,000 surrounded a marauding Moscovite force of 16,000.

The battle commenced on June 6, 1485. Moscovite cavalry ran an attack into the Novgorodan left flank, led by none other than their Grand Prince Andrei himself. He led the retreat after the left flank turned and charges, killing 800 of the 2,000 cavalry. The remainder of the Muscovites charged the enemy lines after pouring a fusillade of shots into the Novgorodans and seeing their Grand Prince fleeing. They were destroyed when they passed the Novgorodan cavalry which charged them from behind while the infantry poured shot after shot into their front. When they were fifty feet away from the Novgorodans, the Novgodorans fixed bayonets and charged.

The charge devastated them and they surrendered after a small group of Novgorodan cavalry ran after Grand Prince Andrei. These dozen men were lead by a noble, Kapitan Nikolai ze Mityunov, a personal friend of the heir to the throne. He managed to find Andrei's horse and his guard. Nikolai sent his lieutenant ahead, and a sergeant who, disguised as a civilian stalled Andrei and his guard until they were eight minutes behind the rearguard. The lieutenant, also disguised as a civilian, pointed them towards the wrong village when they asked for directions. Once they arrived, they had to stop at a hotel.

In the meantime, Kapitan Nikolai's cousin, Vladimir Mishyutonpv, caught up with his ten men. Nikolai led six men into the hotel and tied and gagged Andrei. His guards, when they woke up, were killed as the two at the door had been or also tied. This left them four guards, three of whom were Andrei's sons, and Andrei. They returned to St. Petersburg, where Andrei signed the treaty and was released. His sons, however, were sold as slaves and only the other guard, his cousin, was allowed to escort him back to Moscow. Nikolai became a war hero for his help. He became a Colonel and later became heir to the throne when the Prince's son died and Nikolai married the Prince's youngest daughter.

After this, Nikolai's reign began. During this time, he gained southern Finland and began the Eastern Peaceful Times. The Nikolainist Period ended upon his death on 1563, at the age of ninety-nine. His youngest child by his wife, Princess Anna, thirty years his junior, was born 1535. The child, Vladimir, became Prince at the age of eighteen when his father named him Co-Grand Prince. Vladimir married into a Polish family by the name of Jagiellon. By her, he had fourteen children, including Vladimir II. These children and their descendants led Novgorod and later its successor state, New Helsinki.
 
Ivan III "The Great" died from the plague on his sixth birthday. After the various Russian principalities defeated the Golden Horde, relations began to fall apart. Novgorod allied Crimea and managed to fend off Muscovy. In the Battle of St. Petersburg, Novgorodan forces numbering 18,000 surrounded a marauding Moscovite force of 16,000.

Out and out impossible by then Muscovy was the only real power in the area, the principalities where gone by then. Novgorod was on it's last legs, and even then Muscovy and Crimea had decent relations for a while.
 
Out and out impossible by then Muscovy was the only real power in the area, the principalities where gone by then. Novgorod was on it's last legs, and even then Muscovy and Crimea had decent relations for a while.

Also: Saint Petersburg wouldn't exist without a strong Russia unified by Muscowy.
 
Ivan III "The Great" died from the plague on his sixth birthday. After the various Russian principalities defeated the Golden Horde, relations began to fall apart. Novgorod allied Crimea and managed to fend off Muscovy. In the Battle of St. Petersburg, Novgorodan forces numbering 18,000 surrounded a marauding Moscovite force of 16,000.

The battle commenced on June 6, 1485. Moscovite cavalry ran an attack into the Novgorodan left flank, led by none other than their Grand Prince Andrei himself. He led the retreat after the left flank turned and charges, killing 800 of the 2,000 cavalry. The remainder of the Muscovites charged the enemy lines after pouring a fusillade of shots into the Novgorodans and seeing their Grand Prince fleeing. They were destroyed when they passed the Novgorodan cavalry which charged them from behind while the infantry poured shot after shot into their front. When they were fifty feet away from the Novgorodans, the Novgodorans fixed bayonets and charged.

The charge devastated them and they surrendered after a small group of Novgorodan cavalry ran after Grand Prince Andrei. These dozen men were lead by a noble, Kapitan Nikolai ze Mityunov, a personal friend of the heir to the throne. He managed to find Andrei's horse and his guard. Nikolai sent his lieutenant ahead, and a sergeant who, disguised as a civilian stalled Andrei and his guard until they were eight minutes behind the rearguard. The lieutenant, also disguised as a civilian, pointed them towards the wrong village when they asked for directions. Once they arrived, they had to stop at a hotel.

In the meantime, Kapitan Nikolai's cousin, Vladimir Mishyutonpv, caught up with his ten men. Nikolai led six men into the hotel and tied and gagged Andrei. His guards, when they woke up, were killed as the two at the door had been or also tied. This left them four guards, three of whom were Andrei's sons, and Andrei. They returned to St. Petersburg, where Andrei signed the treaty and was released. His sons, however, were sold as slaves and only the other guard, his cousin, was allowed to escort him back to Moscow. Nikolai became a war hero for his help. He became a Colonel and later became heir to the throne when the Prince's son died and Nikolai married the Prince's youngest daughter.

After this, Nikolai's reign began. During this time, he gained southern Finland and began the Eastern Peaceful Times. The Nikolainist Period ended upon his death on 1563, at the age of ninety-nine. His youngest child by his wife, Princess Anna, thirty years his junior, was born 1535. The child, Vladimir, became Prince at the age of eighteen when his father named him Co-Grand Prince. Vladimir married into a Polish family by the name of Jagiellon. By her, he had fourteen children, including Vladimir II. These children and their descendants led Novgorod and later its successor state, New Helsinki.

18th century tactics and armaments in 15th century Russia? :rolleyes:
 

Kingpoleon

Banned
18th century tactics and armaments in 15th century Russia? :rolleyes:
The tactics are old and classic, several being used by Hannibal at Cannae, even. What armaments? I suppose bayonets could be replaced with long daggers or perhaps swords that they would hold in their hands.
 
The tactics are old and classic, several being used by Hannibal at Cannae, even. What armaments? I suppose bayonets could be replaced with long daggers or perhaps swords that they would hold in their hands.

Polearms were king in late medieval/renaissance warfare for example. So the bardiche would see a lot of use.
 
Assuming the Swedish Empire is still formed in this scenario, I think it would last longer.
I can't seem to find another source for this but...
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/russia-must-learn-to-manage-its-size/503351.html
Even before the birth of Peter the Great, his future pal and scholar Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz attempted to eliminate the conflicts between the great European powers by offering a peace plan granting each its own zone of expansion. According to that plan, Russian territory went to Sweden, regarded at the time as a great power.
Even if this particular tale is not true, given how OTL Swedish empire romped around in Poland, Baltics, Ukraine, etc. I'm sure that without Russia in its way (or at leadt a strong, united state to the east) it would expand further eastward.
Also: Saint Petersburg wouldn't exist without a strong Russia unified by Muscowy.
Regardless of Moscow's status, St. Petersburg didn't exist in the 15th century.
 
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