AHC/WI: Roman Gladius remains sword of choice in Middle Ages

Not to mention we are completely off topic now. So perhaps we can either make a whole new thread about this to continue or just drop it and get back to the topic at hand?

Horribly off-topic! Fun, but off topic. I'm not claiming I'm totally right either, just expressing my doubts.

:)

Anyway, yeah. The gladius actually has a lot of siblings among late European weapons, but none of them were ever anybody's first choice. Maybe a shortsword is just not that great without a scutum, and I'm not personally sure why the scutum went out of use (like did the longer swords make the scutum obsolete or did oval shields obsolete the gladius? Who knows).

Unlike the gladius, the scutum was never really reinvented. The pavise is sort of like a scutum but was never used offensively. Kite shields and round shields could be convex but were never as large. It's a big question to which I have no answer.
 
I doubt a knight on horseback would use a gladius, they would likely use a spatha, which eventually became the standard Roman infantry weapon, and is what Longswords throughout the middle ages derived from in Romance Europe.
 
Unlike the gladius, the scutum was never really reinvented. The pavise is sort of like a scutum but was never used offensively. Kite shields and round shields could be convex but were never as large. It's a big question to which I have no answer.

The reason for that I believe is because the weapons and tactics used by what used to be auxiliary units ended up becoming front-line once the professional legions became scarcer and scarcer. That and the infantry went to using a spatha which was longer then the gladius and so they would want a shield that was a little more maneuverable as well. When it comes down to it, the Scutum was a tool used by highly trained heavy infantry fighting in line based formations. Training included how to "punch" with it, how to run at the charge with it, and how to maneuver with it among other things. With the decline of the empire, the reduced standing of the Legions, and perhaps a reduced emphasis on training, plus the ease of use and construction of the "old style" oval shield brought about its decline.

Strap shields as a whole became less popular as well (I believe) and center grip was more common in usage around the time of the vikings as well. You could easily use Viking shields in the same way of a scutum, but the tactics as a whole had changed.

The main thing that needs to be clarified is what are you counting as a gladius? Since a gladius plus pommel and cross-guard could be many short swords (possibly even hand and a half) that you see in OTL.
 
Given that the Romans abandoned the gladius I doubt anyone would adopt it again for anything but novelty.
 
The main thing that needs to be clarified is what are you counting as a gladius? Since a gladius plus pommel and cross-guard could be many short swords (possibly even hand and a half) that you see in OTL.

Honestly, yeah. Any sword is a gladius depending on who is writing. I mean where a gladius ends and where a spatha begins is kind of not answerable either.

Generally, I would say that any cut and thrust blade less than say 60 cm long and wider than 5 cm is a gladius. Leaf blades of course win extra gladius points :p

Any longer/narrower than that and we'd just be forced to admit the gladius never died out and just became an arming sword over time.
 
I doubt a knight on horseback would use a gladius, they would likely use a spatha, which eventually became the standard Roman infantry weapon, and is what Longswords throughout the middle ages derived from in Romance Europe.

SOMEONE SPEAKS THE TRUTH!

Yeah, the gladius was not good enough for cavalry to use on horseback or against heavy armored warriors. Terrible, in fact. That's why late Rome replaced it with the spatha, which of course evolved directly into medieval longswords.
 
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