Might be slightly ASB but this random thought popped into my head. So is this even possible? Lets assume Admiral Kings Anglophobic opinions are overruled by Roosevelt, the political and strategic nightmare of pulling something like this off are handwaved or not considered rn; and that the British/RN agree to participate in this. Im assuming the RN will be bringing 1-2 extra flat tops to the battle, probably from Somervilles East Indies fleet. Would this help in CAP and the search for the Japanese fleet?
AHC/WI: RN carriers supporting USN at Battle of Midway?
- Thread starter USS_Ward
- Start date
Might prevent the loss of Yorktown. Also might have destroyed some smaller Japanese ships.
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Saratoga survived the war only to be expended during it Atom bomb tests at Bikini Atoll in July 1946.
One ATL: The CVE HMCS Rainbow had sailed to the Pacific upon recommissioning. During the Midway & Aleutians campaign, she was attached to the USN's Task Force One along with the USS Long Island. The two CVEs engaged in an inconclusive carrier battle with the IJN's Ryujo and Junyo alongside the battleline engagement.
It would have been of minimal help without extensive time to rework, time that would be most unlikely. The British had major issues of their own in the Med (two months after Midway they would lose THREE carriers during Operation Pedestal)m and in the North Atlantic. The U.S. had actually stationed the Wasp in the Med starting in April to assist in efforts to get Malta's Air Group back close to complement, with the second mission mot being completed until May 9th (this is why she was not available for either Coral Sea , where her presence could have been decisive and lead to the IJN losing either Shokaku or Zuikaku, maybe both, nor Midway).
British carriers and U.S. carriers at the time were not very compatible. When HMS Victorious was seconded to the U.S. as "USS Robin" she required a couple months of refit to operate with U.S. aircraft , have a LOT of additional AAA mounted, and to get even the basics (like radio frequencies and "lingo") onto the same page.
Capacity-wise, the U.S. would have benefited from the RN's fighter control methods, especially if the RN deck was operating with Yorktown) but non e of the British carrier had a substantial air wing, often only have a minimal CAP of capable fighters (Sea Hurricanes or Marlets (the FAA version of the F4F) or having a more substantial fighter force by few or no attack aircraft. A carrier with a hanger full of Sea Hurricanes accompanying Yorktown would be a gift, one with a hanger full of Fulmars and/or Albacores much less so.
British carriers and U.S. carriers at the time were not very compatible. When HMS Victorious was seconded to the U.S. as "USS Robin" she required a couple months of refit to operate with U.S. aircraft , have a LOT of additional AAA mounted, and to get even the basics (like radio frequencies and "lingo") onto the same page.
Capacity-wise, the U.S. would have benefited from the RN's fighter control methods, especially if the RN deck was operating with Yorktown) but non e of the British carrier had a substantial air wing, often only have a minimal CAP of capable fighters (Sea Hurricanes or Marlets (the FAA version of the F4F) or having a more substantial fighter force by few or no attack aircraft. A carrier with a hanger full of Sea Hurricanes accompanying Yorktown would be a gift, one with a hanger full of Fulmars and/or Albacores much less so.
Driftless
Donor
Probably more Zero bait, unfortunately.
But.... wouldn't it have been ironic if the Albacores arrive at nearly the same time as the Devastators, but from a slightly different direction, so a few of somebodies torpedo planes actually press home an attack and score a hit with a working torpedo or two? OR, the Albacores arrive at nearly the same time as the SBD's and further confuse Japanese aerial response, but also impact the Japanese carriers ability to perform evasive maneuvers during the dive bomb runs?
Lotsa wishful thinking to achieve either outcome, but wouldn't that have been interesting?
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Your best bet would be something like @Astrodragon's The Whale Has Wings: re-establish the RN Fleet Air Arm sooner, get British aircraft development straightened out, and push ahead with more carriers sooner. If this lets you take out the Kriegsmarine's surface units earlier, that allows you to shift naval forces to the Med and Indian Oceans, and that puts you in a better position to disrupt IJN activities in the Southern Resource Area.
Asian Jumbo
Monthly Donor
Agreed. He has a Midway, with 3 RN carriers joining the fun, that makes a great read ( and really doesn’t end well for Japan)
If its one of the older smaller capacity carriers it probably sits a 100km behind (hawaii side) the fleet with a cruiser or destroyer or two escort and does asw along the line of withdrawal.
Hermes is sent and not lost in the Indian Ocean raid and makes several P40 Club runs to Midway in the weeks prior to the battle, significantly increasing the number of fighters on the Island.
These aircraft make a significant contribution to the defence of the island and increases the losses to the initial attacking wave
OTL there was 7 F4F-3 and 21 F2A and they along with the AAA defences shot down or forced to ditch 11 aircraft, 14 were written off after they landed and 29 had light damage while 2 Wildcats and 13 F2As were shot down with only 2 of the remaining 5 F4F-3s and 8 F2A fighters remaining airworthy on the day.
Adding a few dozen P40s should significantly increase that IJN loss rate while reducing that of the US forces.
These aircraft make a significant contribution to the defence of the island and increases the losses to the initial attacking wave
OTL there was 7 F4F-3 and 21 F2A and they along with the AAA defences shot down or forced to ditch 11 aircraft, 14 were written off after they landed and 29 had light damage while 2 Wildcats and 13 F2As were shot down with only 2 of the remaining 5 F4F-3s and 8 F2A fighters remaining airworthy on the day.
Adding a few dozen P40s should significantly increase that IJN loss rate while reducing that of the US forces.
Very unlikely that P-40s are assigned to Midway. It was a navy base, and the AAF was going to keep its pursuit planes to defend Pearl.
More F4F-3s then?
What did happen to the F3F-3s that were replaced with dash 4s on the 3 carriers before Midway?
I wold assume that they were all at Pearl?
I only suggested the P40 as the USAAF had several Bomber squadrons on the island.
And it was likely the best fighter in the US inventory at the time
Some were at Pearl, some were back in the U.S.
This would have made the battle more interesting. Though the RN pressence would be more symbolic than strategic.
As many pointed out, there was only one RN carrier attached to the U.S. Pacific Fleet. The British had Europe to worry about so sending more carriers to the Pacific would overstretch the RN.
As many pointed out, there was only one RN carrier attached to the U.S. Pacific Fleet. The British had Europe to worry about so sending more carriers to the Pacific would overstretch the RN.
I was assuming that the carriers Formidable and Indomitable from the Eastern fleet be sent. They were available in June of 42.
Indian Ocean, or along the eastern coast of Africa. It would take some time though for them to get to anywhere close to Midway though.