AHC/WI: Protestant France

With a POD of 1517, find a way that France winds up as not only Protestant, but the premier Protestant power in Europe.

Bonus points if this is under the Valois and/or England stays Catholic in this scenario.
 
Quite tricky to achieve without a conflict between the French monarch and the Pope. I was taught that the Concordat of Bologna (1516) did much to eliminate such tensions. So - given that the OP is a PoD in 1517 - let's imagine that Francis I dies that year. Pope Leo, egged on by anti-French partisans in the Vatican, and perhaps by the Emperor, tries to wriggle out of his side of the bargain, thus re-inflaming the question of the Gallican liberties, and creating an anti-Papal party in the Parlement which begins to take Luther (and later Calvin) more seriously.
We could further imagine two scenarios - that Francis dies either: a) before his son Francis is conceived, or b) after. If b), there will be a very awkward situation, with the king dead and his wife pregnant; not sure what French law said about such a case at the time. If a), I'm not even sure who would be the next heir. The ensuing intrigues would give scope for all sorts of possibilities.
 
One of the Valois princesses marries Edward VI. Alternately one of the princes marries Elizabeth I.
It would not be possible for Edward by the salic law., Besides, to Elizabeth's situation England will have to have an army superior to Spain's(Not to mention that the Spaniards have much more battle experience) Spain will inevitably try to stop a Protestant from the French throne, In addition to being able to further inflame French Catholics, With this it can be seen as a second hundred years war(In case Edward IV marries a French princess), Well in my opinion any Protestant pretending to be King of France in the period has two options or have an army that crushes the Catholic League and the Spaniards or Converting to Catholicism
 
It would not be possible for Edward by the salic law., Besides, to Elizabeth's situation England will have to have an army superior to Spain's(Not to mention that the Spaniards have much more battle experience) Spain will inevitably try to stop a Protestant from the French throne, In addition to being able to further inflame French Catholics, With this it can be seen as a second hundred years war(In case Edward IV marries a French princess), Well in my opinion any Protestant pretending to be King of France in the period has two options or have an army that crushes the Catholic League and the Spaniards or Converting to Catholicism
I mean, Edward will rule as king of France jure uxoris no...?

Alternate way for Protestant France: Hugenots win.
 
Maybe if Henry IV of France kept his faith, than you could have a Protestant Bourbon King running things.
quite impossible, the reason for Henry IV Converted was that if he didn't make the war would extend, And that he failed to conquer Paris with one of the sieges being thwarted by the Spanish army (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Paris_(1590)) If the war goes on, Henry IV may be defeated or assassinated like otl But he could be assassinated before assuming the throne in my Humble opinion a Protestant in that period to assume the French throne He has two options or does he have an army to crush the Catholic League and spain or Convert like Henry IV
 
Nope. French law disqualified girls from inheriting.
I was honestly just imagining Edward raising an army and slaughtering the male claimants...

That being said, Protestant France could work with an Edward VI-raised daughter marrying a Valois king. Or Elizabeth marrying a Valois king. Alternately, an earlier industrial revolution. Or, if the Guises present themselves as Protestant instead of Catholic. Or if Katherine Parr married a French king instead though that last one is ASB.
 
I was honestly just imagining Edward raising an army and slaughtering the male claimants...
Well I don't think the English army could stand the Spanish army and if it starts massacring you intend it will turn into a hundred years war V2(The memory is still alive one of the reasons why french Catholics were against Isabella clara eugenia daughter of Elizabeth of valois and Philip II It was that if a woman inherited France that would prove the claims of the English kings is right.)
Elizabeth marrying a Valois king.
This would hardly work I could even see a wedding But the catholic French would demand that the heir of the French throne born of the union be raised Catholic and is catholic
I was honestly just imagining Edward raising an army and slaughtering the male claimants...

That being said, Protestant France could work with an Edward VI-raised daughter marrying a Valois king. Or Elizabeth marrying a Valois king. Alternately, an earlier industrial revolution. Or, if the Guises present themselves as Protestant instead of Catholic. Or if Katherine Parr married a French king instead though that last one is ASB.
Of course you can use a previous pod and get those results. My comments are about these things being done in the otl context.
 
It would not be possible for Edward by the salic law., Besides, to Elizabeth's situation England will have to have an army superior to Spain's(Not to mention that the Spaniards have much more battle experience) Spain will inevitably try to stop a Protestant from the French throne, In addition to being able to further inflame French Catholics, With this it can be seen as a second hundred years war(In case Edward IV marries a French princess), Well in my opinion any Protestant pretending to be King of France in the period has two options or have an army that crushes the Catholic League and the Spaniards or Converting to Catholicism
While Spain would TRY I'm not sure they (or anyone else) could do overly much. Particularly if it were to be "gradual". François I went anti-Protestant after the Affaire des Placards. But, his sister was a known patroness of several Protestant theologians (as was Renée de France). That said...should François I's eldest son survive(which I suspect would require him to avoid being imprisoned in Spain), a match to Kristina of Denmark was proposed. Both Kristina and her sister, Dorothea, had reputations as not being the most hardline Catholics (surprisingly Dorothea was in much favour with the Spanish court in spite of this).

So, if we avoid the massive public fail that was the Affaire des Placards, TTL François II marrying Kristina of Denmark, we could see a very differnet France as early as 1550. That's not to say that the kingdom will be happy or no Wars of Religion, but it's a thought.
I was honestly just imagining Edward raising an army and slaughtering the male claimants...
Pretty long list of those, since he'd have to get rid of the Valois, the Bourbons, the Bourbon-Montpensiers and he'd finally get down to the Courtenays. Problem comes in with what happens if those male claimants are Protestant (like some of the Bourbons)?
That being said, Protestant France could work with an Edward VI-raised daughter marrying a Valois king.
After Saint-Barts, I suspect it's too late.
Or Elizabeth marrying a Valois king.
Think this idea would cause more friction in England than in France, since the child (unless she's married to a surviving duc d'Angoulême) will be raised Catholic. After all, one of the sticking points with Alençon (IIRC) was that he was to have a private chapel where mass would be said
Alternately, an earlier industrial revolution.
Huh?
Or, if the Guises present themselves as Protestant instead of Catholic.
Considering that Mary, Queen of Scots' grandmother was a Bourbon, and the dowager duchess managed to walk a line between Protestants and Catholics (à la Marguerite d'Angoulême) - it was actually a reason, IIRC, why Renée de France agreed to her daughter marrying a Guise - it's not necessarily as odd as one might think.
Or if Katherine Parr married a French king instead though that last one is ASB.
Because there were no Protestants at the French court? They needed to import one? Normandy (IIRC) was called "Little Germany" at the time for the sheer number of Protestants.
 
Alternate way for Protestant France: Hugenots win.
The Huguenots basically did win, as much as was possible given that they were only about 10 % of the population. Their leader became the king of France and their religion won a considerable amount of toleration.

Their problem was that war broke out in 1562. Protestantism was rapidly growing in the 15 years before that, but the wars effectively froze the religious situation in place. After that they could only make conversions in the territories they controlled. They needed to avoid war to keep growing, but they became more and more bold, destroying icons and chasing priests who would not convert, and these actions were likely to provoke reactions.

They really needed the house of Valois to be more favorable to them. I would agree that having no concordat of Bologna would be a good POD.
 
The Huguenots basically did win, as much as was possible given that they were only about 10 % of the population. Their leader became the king of France and their religion won a considerable amount of toleration.

Their problem was that war broke out in 1562. Protestantism was rapidly growing in the 15 years before that, but the wars effectively froze the religious situation in place. After that they could only make conversions in the territories they controlled. They needed to avoid war to keep growing, but they became more and more bold, destroying icons and chasing priests who would not convert, and these actions were likely to provoke reactions.

They really needed the house of Valois to be more favorable to them. I would agree that having no concordat of Bologna would be a good POD.
He means an absolute victory, meaning that Henry IV wouldn't have to convert to Protestantism, but since its 1590, its not going to have a major effect until 1618, even then the Boy king Louis XIII was still uncertain and indecisive, however the change here is no cardinal Richelieu, which has a major effect on this Timelines PoD, meaning Louis XIII may not enter the 30 Years' war, and it would result in a marginal Catholic victory, however it does come down to leadership and King Louis himself in this endevour.
 
While Spain would TRY I'm not sure they (or anyone else) could do overly much. Particularly if it were to be "gradual". François I went anti-Protestant after the Affaire des Placards. But, his sister was a known patroness of several Protestant theologians (as was Renée de France). That said...should François I's eldest son survive(which I suspect would require him to avoid being imprisoned in Spain), a match to Kristina of Denmark was proposed. Both Kristina and her sister, Dorothea, had reputations as not being the most hardline Catholics (surprisingly Dorothea was in much favour with the Spanish court in spite of this).

So, if we avoid the massive public fail that was the Affaire des Placards, TTL François II marrying Kristina of Denmark, we could see a very differnet France as early as 1550. That's not to say that the kingdom will be happy or no Wars of Religion, but it's a thought.

Pretty long list of those, since he'd have to get rid of the Valois, the Bourbons, the Bourbon-Montpensiers and he'd finally get down to the Courtenays. Problem comes in with what happens if those male claimants are Protestant (like some of the Bourbons)?

After Saint-Barts, I suspect it's too late.

Think this idea would cause more friction in England than in France, since the child (unless she's married to a surviving duc d'Angoulême) will be raised Catholic. After all, one of the sticking points with Alençon (IIRC) was that he was to have a private chapel where mass would be said

Huh?

Considering that Mary, Queen of Scots' grandmother was a Bourbon, and the dowager duchess managed to walk a line between Protestants and Catholics (à la Marguerite d'Angoulême) - it was actually a reason, IIRC, why Renée de France agreed to her daughter marrying a Guise - it's not necessarily as odd as one might think.

Because there were no Protestants at the French court? They needed to import one? Normandy (IIRC) was called "Little Germany" at the time for the sheer number of Protestants.
Then again, Spain can't take over France for the reasoning that it would burn their economy having to fight every Lords' Individual army and with the risk of the King forming a new one and crushing the Exhausted and tired Spanish army in France.
 
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